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The Slot Head Thread
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=53876		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  SnowManSnow [ Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:47 pm ]
Post subject:  The Slot Head Thread
I intend my current 12 fret 000 build to be a slot head headstock, however making one that is up to even my entry level standard is proving to be more difficult than I thought it would be gaah

Perhaps its just the first attempt, and things generally don't go perfectly for me on a first attempt of anything haha. That said I do want to get better at this aspect of building.

So, thus is born the "Slot Head Thread".

If you have a particular method for creating a slotted headstock please share...

I've also even considered jigs to make keeping things strait and parallel, but man.. they are a tad pricy.

I will of course consult GG, but any other advise is greatly appreciated.

Peace and guitars :)
b
Author:  doncaparker [ Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Slot Head Thread
Snow--

I'm copying these from a post I made in your earlier thread on this topic:

1. Be super careful about the depth of the pilot holes for the tuner screws. Too deep means you will go through to the inside of the slots.

2. Be super careful to pick a drill bit for the pilot holes that matches the size of the screw bodies minus the threads.

3. Clamp the headstock front to back in a vise while you are driving the screws, or else the screws can act as wedges and crack the headstock.

4. After you start each screw, back it out and clip off the pointy end to make it shorter. Otherwise, you can go through to the slots.

More fundamentally, though, I think you are also asking about how to cut the slots. I have done it via the "drill lots of holes in a row" method, but I don't like that approach. There's a lot of clean up work when you do it that way.

I bought a used LuthierTool jig a few years ago, and it is very, very handy. I know their stuff is priced high, and a lot of it feels like it is too rich for me, but this one is worth the money to me, even if I had paid full price for it. I like square slots, and this jig will approximate square slots (there is a small radius in each corner).

Everyone has already told you that you should drill the tuner post holes before you cut the slots. Lesson learned on that one.

I think you can put together a pretty decent routing jig for one of these if you just want to make one yourself. I have seen some examples that looked good. But, again, if you just want to get to work, the LuthierTool one works great.

Good luck.
Author:  SnowManSnow [ Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:28 pm ]
Post subject:  The Slot Head Thread
doncaparker wrote:
Snow--

I'm copying these from a post I made in your earlier thread on this topic:

1. Be super careful about the depth of the pilot holes for the tuner screws. Too deep means you will go through to the inside of the slots.

2. Be super careful to pick a drill bit for the pilot holes that matches the size of the screw bodies minus the threads.

3. Clamp the headstock front to back in a vise while you are driving the screws, or else the screws can act as wedges and crack the headstock.

4. After you start each screw, back it out and clip off the pointy end to make it shorter. Otherwise, you can go through to the slots.

More fundamentally, though, I think you are also asking about how to cut the slots. I have done it via the "drill lots of holes in a row" method, but I don't like that approach. There's a lot of clean up work when you do it that way.

I bought a used LuthierTool jig a few years ago, and it is very, very handy. I know their stuff is priced high, and a lot of it feels like it is too rich for me, but this one is worth the money to me, even if I had paid full price for it. I like square slots, and this jig will approximate square slots (there is a small radius in each corner).

Everyone has already told you that you should drill the tuner post holes before you cut the slots. Lesson learned on that one.

I think you can put together a pretty decent routing jig for one of these if you just want to make one yourself. I have seen some examples that looked good. But, again, if you just want to get to work, the LuthierTool one works great.

Good luck.

I did read through this in that post. Thank you.
And you’re right that jig looks awesome

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Author:  johnparchem [ Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Slot Head Thread
I use a routing jig for guitars, but I make them for ukuleles by drilling holes at the top and bottom of the slots with just the right width drill, I use a forstner bit because it is clean and it has a point so that I can place where I want. I change out to a smaller bit to remove a bunch of the inside of the slot. Then I use chisels, rasps, files to take the slots right to the lines I have drawn.

You can make a mock up as described above using some quality plywood, once you have one you like use you mock up as a jig using pattern following router bit. I a pinch I have used a 1/4 end mill and relied on the shaft to follow the jig.
Author:  Michaeldc [ Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Slot Head Thread
There’s always CNC - :lol:
Author:  bcombs510 [ Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Slot Head Thread
Michael, that's not right. :D Great looking headstocks btw...
Author:  SnowManSnow [ Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Slot Head Thread
Michaeldc wrote:
There’s always CNC - :lol:

Ha very cool.


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Author:  Michaeldc [ Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Slot Head Thread
SnowManSnow wrote:
Michaeldc wrote:
There’s always CNC - :lol:

Ha very cool.


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I tried to stop myself... [headinwall]
Author:  Colin North [ Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Slot Head Thread
I've built my own jigs for slotheads - SM, etc. and CNC way above affordability here.
For the slots I used 1/2" birch ply, and cut the slot parallel to the edge with an 18mm/20mm (?) router bit but it could be done using a forstner bit and cutting out the waste.
I run a 14 mm guide bush and 10 mm straight bit in the router to cut the slots, which end up at 16 mm wide.
It registers with 3 x 8mm birch dowelling (red ends, tight sliding fit) against the edges and top of the headstock.
Attachment:
IMG_20210118_114249293.jpg

For the other side, I push the 8 mm dowels through to the other side and register against the opposite edge.
The top plate is screwed though to an 18 mm ply plate on the back, with some 6 mm MDF scrap against the back of the headstock to prevent break-out.
Attachment:
IMG_20210118_120641209.jpg

The tuner holes are drilled first with this jig, aluminum bar, drilled and tapped for inexpensive guide bushes (from a set 10/8/6 mm, came with a pocket hole jig), a perspex plate to line it up to the centre of the headstock, and a wooden shim for vertically spacing.
Attachment:
IMG_20210118_112218226.jpg

This is a nylon string, but I've used the same set-up for SS too.
Attachment:
IMG_20210119_170316574.jpg

Attachment:
IMG_20210118_122434945.jpg
Author:  TerrenceMitchell [ Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Slot Head Thread
bcombs510 wrote:
Michael, that's not right. :D Great looking headstocks btw...


+1
Author:  TerrenceMitchell [ Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Slot Head Thread
I essentially made a fixed version of the current LMI jig. I'm not someone who will make several versions of a guitar, so fixed jigs are ok by me.

You basically clamp the headstock into this box, centering it by looking through the round hole, then set it on it's side to drill the tuner holes and finally clamp it face up to route the slots in a few passes with a guide bushing. That handles one side, so you flip the headstock and repeat for the other. The last pic below is the first go with the jig and it turned out well. The hardest part of making this is getting those tuner holes e x a c t l y perfect. I use Gotoh tuners with aluminum posts and metal bushings so there's no room for misalignment in my scenario.

Attachment:
IMG_7313.jpeg

Attachment:
IMG_7312.jpeg

Attachment:
IMG_7314.jpeg

Attachment:
DSC04217 copy.JPG
Author:  Clay S. [ Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Slot Head Thread
For a slightly different look, you can use a morticing attachment on a drill press. It makes square ended slots. I make flat bottomed ramps to go with them. In some ways it is easier than using a router and jig setup. I put a fence on the drill press and hold the side of the peghead against it. I make fiducial marks on the fence for start and stop points. I usually chop half way through one side and then turn the peghead over and chop through the other side to avoid any tear out. I do that before the peghead is attached to the neck shaft. A person could use a piece of scrap under the peghead and chop all the way through if that would be more convenient.
If I was into "production" I would probably buy a small mortising machine, but for the few I do, the drill press attachment works O.K.
The picture of the back of the peghead shows a "work around" if you make the peghead slightly too thin, and the effects of leaving a snark tuner on lacquer for an extended period of time.
Drill press morticer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxyWfze3qzQ
Author:  jfmckenna [ Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Slot Head Thread
I like doing it the old school way. Drill two holes and use a coping saw to cut the waste out. Then chisels and rasps for the rest. I have used router jigs too but prefer the less messy hand tool way.

You have to be VERY precise with your symmetry in a slot head. The eye can detect discrepancies in symmetry very well. The other thing I'm a bit of a stickler about is I like the strings to go from the back of the nut to the tuner post without touching any wood. But that's just me and I don't think it matters as far as function and tone go. I just like it that way.
Author:  Dave m2 [ Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Slot Head Thread
I use a template and router after having removed most of the material with drills and jigsaw.

Off topic but I tried pattern routing the outside profile of the head but after having had a couple exploding on me through catching the end grain I don't do that anymore! Jigsaw, block plane, bobbin sander - much calmer.

Dave
Author:  Colin North [ Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Slot Head Thread
Dave m2 wrote:
........................................Off topic but I tried pattern routing the outside profile of the head but after having had a couple exploding on me through catching the end grain I don't do that anymore! Jigsaw, block plane, bobbin sander - much calmer.Dave

Off topic, the Robosander pattern sander gets my vote for this job.
Author:  TerrenceMitchell [ Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Slot Head Thread
Dave m2 wrote:
I use a template and router after having removed most of the material with drills and jigsaw.

Off topic but I tried pattern routing the outside profile of the head but after having had a couple exploding on me through catching the end grain I don't do that anymore! Jigsaw, block plane, bobbin sander - much calmer.

Dave



My table router is the only tool in the shop I'm completely terrified of. But, I still use it to route my headstock and neck profiles. I use an expensive compression bit that can handle the end grain, as long as you are very careful to never try a climb cut!
Author:  ballbanjos [ Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Slot Head Thread
Dave m2 wrote:
I use a template and router after having removed most of the material with drills and jigsaw.

Off topic but I tried pattern routing the outside profile of the head but after having had a couple exploding on me through catching the end grain I don't do that anymore! Jigsaw, block plane, bobbin sander - much calmer.

Dave


I've gone to using a template and a "robo sander" instead of using a pattern following bit on a router for peghead profiles. I've had a couple of exploding headstocks too. The robo sander works quite well for this, and takes a lot of the anxiety out of the operation.

Dave
Author:  Dave m2 [ Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Slot Head Thread
As JF has said this task does need to be done well. The advantage of routing with a template is that the slots are cut vertically. And are properly shaped. (Though I am still not sure within the ordinary workshop how one gets the template absolutely right. Maybe this is the time to farm out to a cnc shop?)

It is quite hard to achieve this with hand tools - at least for us amateurs.

Others have obviously decided against routing the outside profile too. I am not familiar with ‘robosander’. Is that the same as bobbin sander?
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Slot Head Thread
For years I have used the Robosander for initial headstock and bridge template routing. It leaves things about 1/32" proud. If you want it exact you can follow with the pattern bit on the router table and I have never had one catch or chip after first using the Robosander. I still do climb cuts to be safe followed by a final pass conventionally.

I also coughed up the $$$ for the luthiertool jig a long time ago. It's pretty foolproof and definitely worth it if you plan to do quite a few slotheads.
Author:  ballbanjos [ Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Slot Head Thread
Terence Kennedy wrote:
For years I have used the Robosander for initial headstock and bridge template routing. It leaves things about 1/32" proud. If you want it exact you can follow with the pattern bit on the router table and I have never had one catch or chip after first using the Robosander. I still do climb cuts to be safe followed by a final pass conventionally.

I also coughed up the $$$ for the luthiertool jig a long time ago. It's pretty foolproof and definitely worth it if you plan to do quite a few slotheads.



I've just compensated for that 1/32" in my template--i've seen the same thing.

To be honest, I've done the whole thing on CNC too with absolutely clean results. But not as much fun somehow.

Banjo pegheads are interesting in that the contours of the peghead are perpendicular to the fingerboard surface, not the peghead face. Makes CNC shaping a bit easier when cutting a neck since you don't have to re-fixture to cut them.

Dave
Author:  Colin North [ Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Slot Head Thread
Dave m2 wrote:
As JF has said this task does need to be done well. The advantage of routing with a template is that the slots are cut vertically. And are properly shaped. (Though I am still not sure within the ordinary workshop how one gets the template absolutely right. Maybe this is the time to farm out to a cnc shop?)

It is quite hard to achieve this with hand tools - at least for us amateurs.

Others have obviously decided against routing the outside profile too. I am not familiar with ‘robosander’. Is that the same as bobbin sander?

Of course the results would only be as good as the template.
Small "opportunities" can be filled with CA and leveled - trying will help to build skill levels, and I'm sure people here will have been through 2/3 iterations of some jigs seeking improvements.

Robosander - guided drum sander, it's a bit like a large flush router bit run in a drill press normally.
As has been mentioned, the result is not quite flush, which I find is quite useful as the abrasives are quite coarse, leaving enough meat for final planing/sanding.
Author:  Dave m2 [ Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Slot Head Thread
Thanks Colin - didn't know such a thing existed. I shall acquire one sharpish. Dave
Author:  Freeman [ Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Slot Head Thread
A couple of tricks that I have learned. First, since I do my heads with a separate scarf joined headstock I make the slots before I glue it on to the shaft - much easier to deal with it in a drill press

Attachment:
IMG_0944-1.jpg


Attachment:
IMG_0945-1.jpg


My little dart volute is a separate piece glued over the transition and shaped

Attachment:
IMG_0960-1.jpg


And lastly, it is possible to drill the tuner holes on a drill press by carefully leveling the head relative to the quill

Attachment:
IMG_1053-1.jpg


Attachment:
IMG_1054-1.jpg
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Slot Head Thread
I have adapted the different sizes of Robosanders to many tasks including neck and heel profile. It is a big part of a lot of my building.processes. To stabilize it with your drill press and improve accuracy this thing is the goods.

https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/to ... em=68Z0220

I have a hole and spacers in a surrogate drill press table so that with the support in place the height of the bearing above the table can be varied.
Author:  SnowManSnow [ Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Slot Head Thread
For those who do use the luthier tools jig.. which router and bushings do you use ?


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