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| Robert Sorby ProEdge http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=53911 |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Robert Sorby ProEdge |
I've had a new tool in my shop for a few weeks, and since I have not seen any discussion of it here on the OLF, I thought I would share some thoughts. It is the Robert Sorby ProEdge. Here's a photo: Attachment: Sorby ProEdge.JPG Basically, it is a 2" belt sander that is designed for grinding and sharpening edge tools. They are pretty popular with wood turners. I had been in the market for a slow speed bench grinder, some really nice wheels, and after-market tool rests. This tool kept showing up in searches, and the price was comparable to a high end bench grinder setup. I looked closer, and really liked the idea of the ProEdge. The star of the show is the indexed tool rest: Attachment: Tool Rest.JPG With the index pin system shown on the left, all of the most used angles are reliably repeatable. A little buffing wheel attachment is available: Attachment: Buffing Wheel.JPG You can grind tool bevels (and also chisel backs, if you are very careful) with 60 grit belts. That's cool, but the really cool part is that the belts are available in grits up to 3000. So, you can grind your primary bevel in a jiffy, then switch belts and go straight to sharpening, going up in the grits the way you would for the Scary Sharp method. After 3000, switch to either the buffing wheel accessory, or move to a leather strop, and you're done. Tools can get very sharp very fast. As a test case, I took this sorry looking Stanley #40, an otherwise fine chisel that someone apparently chose to use to pry up nails: Attachment: Stanley #40.JPG Attachment: Rough Edge.JPG After some time on the ProEdge (way, way less time than it would have taken by hand), going from 60 grit up to 3000 grit, then to the little buffing wheel, the #40 looks like this: Attachment: After 2.JPG Attachment: After 3.JPG And it does the old "cut paper on edge like butter" thing just great. It's a sharp tool again, and ready to be useful. The base unit ProEdge costs in the $500 USD range. You can find deals for as low as $410 from time to time, and certainly in the $450-480 range pretty frequently. The belts are relatively cheap (except a very expensive diamond belt), so the consumables are not an issue. What some would see as a financial downside, I see as a plus: You have to buy specialized jigs for every different type of tool you want to sharpen. I see that as a plus, because there are some tools I will never sharpen. This way, I have the jigs I need, and no others. I have also built one specialized jig for something in particular. It is easy to do, and it makes the ProEdge extremely useful for otherwise difficult grinding/sharpening jobs. Overall, I am a very happy ProEdge user. If you find yourself wanting to power sharpen your edge tools, and you don't already have a decent grinder setup, this is a pretty nice option. |
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| Author: | Pegasusguitars [ Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Robert Sorby ProEdge |
Don- just curious what the progression of belts was to get to 3,000, and how much was invoved in changing belts. On my knife sharpener I have to undo a couple of bolts and remove a cover. I only use mine for crude grinding, so I seldom change belts.Looks like an interesting tool. I've tried a lot of power sharpening tools over the years, but none of them ever got me to the finish of my water stones. Looks like you'll enjoy having this one!--Bob |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Robert Sorby ProEdge |
Bob— I went through the following grits, both back and bevel: 60 120 220 400 600 1200 3000 Changing belts goes super fast (15-30 seconds) if you work with the right side guard off the tool for this specific operation (working through all grits). If you want to work with the guard on 100% of the time, a belt change takes twice as long. So, it is a personal acceptance of risk situation if you want to go as fast as possible. Once tools have been worked on the ProEdge, you can leave the highest grit (and the guard) on it, and just touch up as needed. No belt changes (or at least fewer) are needed, unless an edge gets nicked. There are two plastic oval thumb nuts on the right side that secure the guard. I replaced those with round knurled thumb nuts, because I think they are easier and faster to deal with. The guard is the main negative you read about the ProEdge, for sure. But there are ideas online for making changes go faster, using magnets. |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Robert Sorby ProEdge |
I've rough sharpened chisels in the field using a belt sander. It sharpens them quickly, but you need to cool them in water every few seconds to not lose the temper of the metal. Does the 2 inch belt run slower to not generate heat? |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Robert Sorby ProEdge |
Clay— I think the belt speed is 700 fpm. The rougher grits don’t generate heat as fast as the finer grits, but they all generate enough heat that quenching is needed, unless you are just touching up. For working through all the grits, I got into the groove of working a grit, then quenching the tool while I changed the belt. It worked out fine. |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Robert Sorby ProEdge |
Hi Don, Portable belt sanders usually run 1000 to 1500+ FPM, so that probably accounts for quicker quenching needed. |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Mon Feb 01, 2021 12:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Robert Sorby ProEdge |
If you are just grinding bevels, the heat doesn’t build up too quickly. Maybe just placing the back on some cast iron every so often to act as a heat sink would work OK. If you are grinding chisel backs, the tool heats up fairly quickly, so quenching is a better idea. Really, for any of this sort of grinding with a belt sander, quenching is the better practice. But at 60 grit, just grinding the bevel, it hardly heats up at all. |
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| Author: | James Orr [ Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Robert Sorby ProEdge |
I’m dull to sharp in a minute or so using my Lie-Nielsen guide and two stones (1000, 7000), but no matter how many YouTubers I’ve seen flatten a chisel back in similar time using this or that synthetic or diamond stone, I’ve never experienced anything remotely similar. Prepping or repairing blades is where this looks like it would really shine, and I’m jealous.  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Robert Sorby ProEdge |
I bought one last year and I really like it for chisels and plane blades. It's definitely what I would call a luxury tool but it does a good job. I'm glad I got mine. Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Mon Feb 01, 2021 8:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Robert Sorby ProEdge |
A specific thought, spurred by what James and Steve wrote: If I already owned a really good bench grinder setup, I would consider the ProEdge too expensive for me, because, while it does add functions the grinder can’t do (flat instead of hollow ground bevels, more grits available), a grinder does a lot that the ProEdge does, and for which I bought it. It would feel extravagant to own both. But I didn’t have a good grinder setup, so buying the ProEdge was a great fit for me. I am keeping my other sharpening tools at hand (diamond plates, Veritas jigs, granite surface) in case I find something the ProEdge can’t handle. Essentially, I needed a grinder, and I found a tool that grinds great, but also sharpens and hones pretty well (things I was already well geared for). I’m not one of those persons who just loves to sharpen. For me, it’s like having a clean bathroom. I appreciate the importance of it, I love having it once the job is done, and I’m competent at it, but I don’t love doing the job. The ProEdge makes the job go pretty fast, even starting from garage sale tool rescue condition. That’s a great fit for someone like me. |
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| Author: | Pegasusguitars [ Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Robert Sorby ProEdge |
Don- Do you still see noticeable striations on the beveled edge at 3,000 grit? This is a kind of extavagnt tool, but like you , sharpening is not my first go to joy. If I could find a tool that truly works for power sharpening, I'd be tempted. Could sell my current knife sharpener and another tool, and not be out too much $.How about sources for the finer belts? The rougher grits could come from Klingspor, but I don't see finer belts. I do see some on Amazon. Thanks for the replies.--Bob |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Robert Sorby ProEdge |
If I had one of those I'd probably sharpen my blades more often then every other year, lol.. |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Mon Feb 01, 2021 2:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Robert Sorby ProEdge |
Ed, I'm not much different than you. That's why I got it, I'm lazy. I don't remember what belt I'm using, probably 220 or so but I don't even change belts just get it sharp on the belt then go to a couple of diamond stones for a few minutes. Works great for me. |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Mon Feb 01, 2021 3:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Robert Sorby ProEdge |
Pegasusguitars wrote: Don- Do you still see noticeable striations on the beveled edge at 3,000 grit? This is a kind of extavagnt tool, but like you , sharpening is not my first go to joy. If I could find a tool that truly works for power sharpening, I'd be tempted. Could sell my current knife sharpener and another tool, and not be out too much $.How about sources for the finer belts? The rougher grits could come from Klingspor, but I don't see finer belts. I do see some on Amazon. Thanks for the replies.--Bob Bob-- No problem; happy to help if I can. On the question of belt availability, I have found them all sorts of places. Woodcraft carries them; Rockler does, too. Klingspor, as you have seen. Hartville Tool and Peachtree Woodworking, also. If you buy them on eBay, they will come from Hartville or Peachtree, I think. It does pay to shop around, because some places offer better deals than others. Just search for Sorby ProEdge, and options will come up. The higher grit Trizact belts are more expensive than the regular AO or ceramic belts in the lower grits. The Trizact are the 600, 1200 and 3000 grit belts. But, they seem to last a long time, particularly since you should only be touching the tool to them for a moment, after having done the hard work on the lower grits. What I see coming off the 3000 belt is very smooth. I don't have any photos from off the belt and before buffing, but here are two photos of the bevel after buffing on the little wheel: Attachment: After 1.JPG Attachment: After 4.JPG I think that waterstones provide a smoother surface, but they also are more work and take more time. What I am getting off the ProEdge is sharp enough for me. If you are seriously interested, I recommend you take a look at some YouTube videos from David Stanton, a woodworker in Australia. There are quirks to this machine (all machines have them), so it would pay to do some research and make sure it will be a good fit for you. But I'm pretty happy with it. |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Mon Feb 01, 2021 3:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Robert Sorby ProEdge |
Those photos are not ideal. Sorry; I thought I had some better shots of the bevel. But the answer is that it looks pretty smooth to me, after I climb the grits and end at 3000. Buffing or honing on a strop makes it better. |
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| Author: | Pegasusguitars [ Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Robert Sorby ProEdge |
Don- Thanks again. The photos look pretty good. Think I'll have a go at Craigslist and see if I can sell a couple of things. The finish I get on my water stones is spectacular, but I really have a lot of dull chisels that I never seem to get to. Enjoy your building!-Bob |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Robert Sorby ProEdge |
Having a wide variety of belts available is a big advantage for that machine, and the indexed tool rest looks pretty well made. Someone gave me an old Rockwell 1"X48" ribbon beltsander that I use for general woodworking, but I have only seen belts that go up to 400 grit. I have cleaned up a few flea market chisels with it, and then switched off to finer grit sandpapers and stones to get them sharp. Having a machine to take them from chipped to sharp without changing tools and methods might be nice. Grizzly and others offer cheap ribbon/disc sanders that would allow a person to use Trizact discs and other types of abrasives if you could figure out a quick change method for them (velcro/ hookit?). Certainly not as nice as the ProEdge, but may confer some of the advantages at a lower price point. https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzl ... nder/h6070 https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzl ... nder/g0864 |
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| Author: | Darrel Friesen [ Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Robert Sorby ProEdge |
That looks very robust and is probably pretty popular with knife makers. I have too many sharpening systems but they are all handy and break up the monotony. A veritas powered sharpener, a bench grinder with the white stones and a Veritas grinding jig and a 1" x 42" Kalamazoo belt sander as my powered rigs. They all have their place. On the beltsander, I finish with a leather belt and honing compound. Works especially great on knives. I'm going to try to resist picking one of these up. |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Robert Sorby ProEdge |
I'm not trying to influence you, Darrel, but there is a knife jig for the ProEdge. I have it, but I have not experimented with it yet. Almost everything on or made for the ProEdge is heavy and unyielding, which is such a refreshing change. I guess a company like Sorby doesn't have trouble sourcing high quality steel. The guards, which are sturdy enough to keep your fingers out of harm's way, are a lighter gauge than the rest of the machine, but the frame and the tool rests are big chunks of steel. |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Robert Sorby ProEdge |
Just a few disclaimers/cautions: 1. I mentioned working without the guard above. Please understand that this is a risk. I personally accept that risk on a few occasions and make sure to be very careful around the machine, the same way I am very careful around my non-SawStop table saw. Just be careful if you buy one of these. You can hurt yourself. 2. I also mentioned grinding chisel backs. While not so much a danger to yourself, it can turn out badly for the chisel if you are not careful, and/or you do not develop some feel for how to do this. I highly recommend picking up some cheap, used chisels and experimenting a bit to get the hang of this before you trust yourself with a nice chisel. But gosh, once you get the feel for it, this saves SO MUCH TIME. I feel like I age a lifetime trying to clean up the back of a chisel using other methods. This makes it go super fast. But that's the problem; things can go wrong super fast. Just learn the feel on some tools you don't care much about. Sorry to be a nanny, but I would hate for someone to have a bad experience. |
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| Author: | Pegasusguitars [ Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Robert Sorby ProEdge |
Don- I got my ProEdge today. Since you personally caused me to spend so much $, I expect you to at least buy me a beer if we ever meet! The tool is really nice! I sold a power belt knife sharpener and a Workshop sharpener that I had and came within a $150.00 of the Sorby so that was close enough to spring for it. As you said, why this tool costs so much is a mystery. While it is well made, much of the cost must be the Sorby name. Famous guy! I got the Basic model, which came with everything I needed except the Short Tool Platform, the Square Edge jig, and of course extra belts. Many of my old short chisels can't be sharpened until I get the Short Tool Platform, which I've ordered. The sharpening ability of this tool is outstanding. I got a selection of belts with it. It came stock with a 120 belt on it, which I thought might work well for sharpening an axe, but it actually will put a hair shaving ege on a chisel. Not a pretty one, but very sharp. Can hardly wait to see what it will do with the finer belts. I doubt that I'll ever put the side guard on it. I've always used the edge of a belt for cleaning up the undercuts on bound frets, and the guard would just make belt changes slower.For all you folks out there in T.V. land, if you buy the Basic version of this tool, some belts, and the necessary Short Platform and Square Edge jigs, you'll be out around $525.00.No joke on the $ side. Don, thanks for helping me spend my $ on a good tool for a change!--Bob |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Robert Sorby ProEdge |
I’m glad it has turned out to be a good fit, Bob. I haven’t been to Hawaii since I was about 9 years old, so maybe I’m due for a visit, during which I will be happy to spring for the beer. I was able to put together a jig for sharpening short chisels on the regular tool rest. If you use 1/2” plywood and bevel the bottom, it lifts the handle up enough to clear the back of the metal tool rest. I sharpened a few plane irons over the weekend. It goes so much faster with the ProEdge. I’m very happy I went this direction for sharpening. |
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| Author: | Pegasusguitars [ Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Robert Sorby ProEdge |
Don- I ended up taking your idea and just making a shorter platform out of wood. I did not do the bevel like you did, I just figued out how much height I needed to add for my shortest chisel to clear the rest.There is a cleat on the bottom that slides in the stock platform slot and a straight edge guide attached to the top. Works good enough. No need for any disassembly to use the shorter platform. I've cancelled my order for the Sorby short platform--Bob |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Robert Sorby ProEdge |
Thanks, that will save me a few $. I'll have to make me one. Was looking at ordering the short platform. Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Robert Sorby ProEdge |
Here is my version of a homemade jig for sharpening shorter chisels: Attachment: Homemade jig 1.JPG There is a thin piece of rosewood in the miter slot. The left side piece of rosewood can be adjusted to be perfectly square to the wear plate. The right side piece of rosewood is glued to the larger piece of plywood, so that the two pieces of rosewood can form two parallel walls for feeding the chisel (or plane iron) toward the sanding belt. The plywood base is beveled to give more support right up to the sanding belt. I like to use a spring clamp to keep this in one spot, once I get it where I want it in relation to the sanding belt. It works great! |
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