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| That one growth line http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=54520 |
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| Author: | Alaska Splty Woods [ Tue Nov 02, 2021 7:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | That one growth line |
When producing 10's of thousands of guitar tops, one see's so many attributes and characteristics from our old growth rainforest. I have seen this type of issue before. One growth line, in these tops, it looks like the line was produced 150-200 yrs ago.., I think it's associated with an unseasonably dry yr, Though there was nobody keeping weather records in SE alaska in those days. In times past, and this material also, I have taken a board to see if it will break on this line by putting my thumbs on the line and pulling the edges. It never breaks were one would think it would. In this case the sort will go into our light quilt/curl sort depending on how VG cut the boards are. Because every other grading attribute is GREAT, I have decided to drop these into our 2A Lt qlt/crl sorts. Curious what professional luthiers think about this. Check out the video here https://youtu.be/YzTM4Ht8OIk |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Tue Nov 02, 2021 8:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: That one growth line |
Because of that - one - grain line some would grade that as an "A" grade top, which is why there are some great "A" grade tops out there. It is the small and inconsequential defects that land many tops which are strongly graded on cosmetics into a lower "paint grade" sort. As a cabinet maker I would run that piece through the table saw at the grain line, eliminate it, and make a 4 piece top, if cosmetics were a big concern. As a luthier I might bury it under paint - black face or burst. But I'm not a professional, and don't have the pressure to sell anything, so I might just use it "as is". In the not too distant future when most of the old growth has been turned into two by fours people will begin to appreciate the little remaining and accept some less than perfect pieces as they do now with red spruce and Brazilian rosewood. As Mitchell once sang "You don't know what you got till it's gone". |
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| Author: | Chris Pile [ Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: That one growth line |
I don't see a problem - I see a feature. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: That one growth line |
Unfortunately we are at the mercy of buyers who have been educated by magazines and YouTube as to what 'good' is. I myself would have no problem with that for my entry level brand, but I rarely get a call for Sitka. What is the density? |
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| Author: | Pegasusguitars [ Wed Nov 03, 2021 12:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: That one growth line |
Brett, I have no problem with the structural aspect, but I could never use it on a guitar. Most people do not look at it as a "feature".Too much work goes into a guitar to have the over educated public pass it up because they think there is an issue. I use wood like that for backstrips and other small parts inside the instrument. Luckily I don't see them in the numbers you probably do. I have similar issues with some of the koa I've used and sold for the last, 40 years. Drop dead wood that I can't sell or use because of 1 grain line. Heartbreaking! Take care.-Bob |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Wed Nov 03, 2021 1:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: That one growth line |
Torres would have loved having wood of that quality. He often wound up making making 4 and 5 piece non book matched sound boards because he selected the best quality wood rather than the best looking wood for his guitars. Although it might be more difficult to process - if you cut the billets double length initially, those you found to have the dark grain line could be processed for harp guitars and long narrow instruments such as dulcimers. Finding soundboards long enough for those instruments is more difficult so some cosmetic flaws might be accepted. Another niche market that uses multipiece tops that would allow the grain line to be cut out is folk harps (the grain runs cross wise to the length of the soundbox). The guitar making industry has oversold people on cosmetically flawless materials and judging guitars by their looks rather than their sound. |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: That one growth line |
I've had clients that would not accept that. Me personally I accept anything that beautiful mother nature provides. If the wood is bright and lively and stable I use it. If anything it makes it unique. But the truth is people always buy with their eyes first, even the ones who claim they don't, do. And the Internet has poisoned the minds of many in this regard. |
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| Author: | Dave m2 [ Wed Nov 03, 2021 1:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: That one growth line |
The dendrochronologists would probably be able to tell you about that year. Not sure how you would get hold of one though! Dave |
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| Author: | John Arnold [ Wed Nov 03, 2021 4:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: That one growth line |
Dendrochronologists may something different, but the foresters I have consulted have said it was probably caused by a spruce budworm attack. There are two such lines in some of my old growth WV red spruce, but they don't seem to catch your eye like in those Sitka tops. Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | bftobin [ Wed Nov 03, 2021 6:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: That one growth line |
Buyers are a curious bunch. On one hand they'll accept wild grain and figure in backs and sides, and on the other they want flawless even grained tops. Brent |
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| Author: | Chris Pile [ Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: That one growth line |
^^^^ You just said a mouthful. ^^^^ |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | That one growth line |
Chris Pile wrote: ^^^^ You just said a mouthful. ^^^^ So true. |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Thu Nov 04, 2021 7:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: That one growth line |
That is the funniest thing to isn't it. |
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| Author: | Alaska Splty Woods [ Fri Nov 05, 2021 7:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: That one growth line |
Thank you for your input folks! |
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| Author: | John Arnold [ Sat Nov 06, 2021 10:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: That one growth line |
bftobin wrote: Buyers are a curious bunch. On one hand they'll accept wild grain and figure in backs and sides, and on the other they want flawless even grained tops. That is most reasonable, considering the relative importance of the top versus the back in sound production. Brent Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Sat Nov 06, 2021 5:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: That one growth line |
It also makes sense structurally; wild grain weakens the top and can make bridge gluing and removal problematic. OTOH, the 'one grain line' problem here is not in that league. |
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| Author: | Mike Collins [ Sun Nov 07, 2021 2:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: That one growth line |
I would buy it!!! Mike |
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