Official Luthiers Forum!
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/

Festool Rotex 90–Useful for guitars?
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=54647		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  doncaparker [ Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:40 am ]
Post subject:  Festool Rotex 90–Useful for guitars?
Does anyone use the Festool Rotex 90 for pre-finish detail sanding, or any guitar sanding (or buffing) at all? I am considering buying one. I like the versatility of the small round head (3.5”) and the small Delta head. Theoretically, it could be pretty useful, and I love Festool dust control. But, it is a bit expensive. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:48 am ]
Post subject:  Festool Rotex 90–Useful for guitars?
Same question here. I was thinking it might be a better size for sides and necks. I’ve looked at that several times but it is pricey so I also have not pulled the trigger. Besides the cost of the tool there’s also the cost of stocking another size of sanding discs.
Author:  James Orr [ Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Festool Rotex 90–Useful for guitars?
I haven't used the Rotex, but I can tell you my ETS-125 is going strong after close to 15 years and leaves an incredible finish surface. One of the professional finishers who used to frequent the forum (I'm having a moment and can't remember his name [headinwall]) used to say he could tell when the luthier finished with a Festool because the surface was that much better than most, and I believe the fine sanding mode on a Rotex has the same orbital motion as the ETS series, if not better.
Author:  windsurfer [ Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Festool Rotex 90–Useful for guitars?
I have to 90 sized Metabo and find it very useful. Used as much or more than my 125 festool ( finish sanding only) and more than any of longer stroke 5" ros` I have around the shop

Only drawback is that the grip is a bit on the large size.
Author:  Hesh [ Sun Dec 26, 2021 7:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Festool Rotex 90–Useful for guitars?
James Orr wrote:
I haven't used the Rotex, but I can tell you my ETS-125 is going strong after close to 15 years and leaves an incredible finish surface. One of the professional finishers who used to frequent the forum (I'm having a moment and can't remember his name [headinwall]) used to say he could tell when the luthier finished with a Festool because the surface was that much better than most, and I believe the fine sanding mode on a Rotex has the same orbital motion as the ETS series, if not better.


Yeah I used to post that Joe White and Tony Ferguson had commented independently on how I prep my guitars. I used those guys for finishing early on before I sprayed my own nitro. They both commented that they never have to touch my stuff and what was I doing to prep it. The answer was the ETS-125 like James says. It does a very fine job and mine is also still going strong nearly 17 years later. So is my Festool drill and vac BTW, great products!

I even used mine to do final prep on my deck I refinished to knock any additional loose stuff off and it worked great. How many people take a ROS to their deck with a 5" sanding surface :)

This may not matter to some but I love that the Festool Vacs and tools like the sanders are integrated and work great together. The dust collection is superb but it does limit you to Festool papers which in my experience are as high quality as any.

Lastly I know you are interested in the Rotax but the 125 is perfect for one hand use for me too if I need to and that was a bonus as well. They don't break the bank either.
Author:  doncaparker [ Sun Dec 26, 2021 7:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Festool Rotex 90–Useful for guitars?
Thanks, all. I’ve had an older ETS 125 for a while (purchased used). I just bought a CT SYS dust extractor, because I’ve not been crazy about using my otherwise fine Ridgid shop vac with the 125. So, even without the RO 90, I’m making improvements, and I plan to make better use of the 125. The hassle of using non-Festool dust extraction with the 125 was limiting its usefulness for me, I think.

The lure of the RO 90 as an additional sander is the overall versatility. I like the smaller head and the additional Delta head. I watched some videos on YouTube from Driftwood Guitars (formerly active on the OLF), and Chris from Driftwood seems to make great use of an RO 90, in addition to an ETS 150.

I went ahead and ordered an RO 90. We’ll see how it works out. Thanks for the input, and feel free to share more!
Author:  doncaparker [ Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Festool Rotex 90–Useful for guitars?
My Festool Rotex 90 is in place, ready for use, along with a CT SYS dust extractor:

Attachment:
Festool sander and dust extractor.jpg


I look forward to experimenting with it.

For those of you who are looking for sandpaper for this sander (or other Festool sanders), and who would like to use paper beyond (or other than) what Festool offers, Klingspor sells H&L discs and triangles that fit. Klingspor's search engine is not great, so here are some SKU numbers to get you into the right ballpark:

3.5" round, 220 grit: VD92316
3.5" triangle, 220 grit: RT31011

From there, you should be able to find other grits and types of paper.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Festool Rotex 90–Useful for guitars?
I also got one of the RO 90s, I've been using it for a few weeks and have to say I'm really impressed. Not surprising since it's a Festool I suppose.
Author:  TerrenceMitchell [ Sat Feb 05, 2022 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Festool Rotex 90–Useful for guitars?
Sorry I'm late to the game on this one. Been out of the loop for a while with multiple moves and house hunting in another state.... plus I don't have a shop right now :-/

Anyhow, I bought a Rotex as an alternative to a buffing wheel and have had good luck with it. I also have a festoon 6" 3mm sander that I use to do my sanding on the bodies, both before finish and as part of the final sanding of finish before buffing (using 600, 1000, and 1500 by Assilex). I use a Magura compound with the Rotex to do the "buffing" at the end and the entire process is dramatically faster than the previous method of wet sanding by hand to 1,000 and then standing at the buffing wheel for hours. I also use the 6" sander with 1,500 to create a "matte" finish on the neck.

Not a cheap option, but I decided if I could eliminate the worst part of the guitar building process with better tools, and have no difference in the end product (fit, finish, performance or tone) then I'm in.

FWIW, I use Crystalac products.
Author:  doncaparker [ Sat Feb 05, 2022 7:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Festool Rotex 90–Useful for guitars?
Thanks, Terry. I have a question for you, and others: Do you use interface pads at all? I'm experimenting with the interface pads on my Rotex 90. Just curious what other folks are using on their Festool sanders to handle the curvy parts.

I also am experimenting with another use of the Rotex 90: making fine sawdust for filler. Robbie O'Brien has a method of pore filling where you sprinkle matching end-grain sawdust on the wood to be filled, then rub a pad with a little shellac on the sawdust on the wood. It essentially is a pumice pore fill without the pumice. Robbie makes the sawdust by putting down newspaper to catch the sawdust coming off a belt sander. I've done that in the past, but I'm trying really hard to not put any more fine sawdust into the air in my shop. That's why I bought my Festool stuff.

Anyway, here is my experiment: I took the everyday bag out of my CT SYS and replaced it with a fresh one, and labeled it for mahogany only. I put an 80 grit disc on the Rotex 90, set it on Rotex mode, put a block of mahogany in my vise, and went to town at the highest speed. It's working pretty well, but it is going to take some time to get a useful amount of sawdust into the bag. The bags are cheap (less than $5 USD apiece), so having a bag for each species of wood I want to fill won't be expensive. This is time consuming, but I just don't want any more clouds of fine sawdust in my shop if I can help it.
Author:  bcombs510 [ Sat Feb 05, 2022 7:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Festool Rotex 90–Useful for guitars?
I use interface pads on a 5” Festool sander. They are critical for my newest favorite abrasive, the 3M Xtract. It’s 3M’s answer to Abranet but comes out a bit cheaper and 50ct boxes are available on Amazon. For whatever reason they show up same day for me most of the time. I guess the local warehouse is where they keep them. :D


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Author:  James Orr [ Mon Feb 07, 2022 9:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Festool Rotex 90–Useful for guitars?
TerrenceMitchell wrote:
I use a Magura compound with the Rotex to do the "buffing" at the end and the entire process is dramatically faster than the previous method of wet sanding by hand to 1,000 and then standing at the buffing wheel for hours.


I'd love to hear more about how you're setting up the sander up for buffing. I'd also be interesting in knowing if I can use my Menzerna compounds. I've always used my ETS-125 to sand the finish, but it would sure free up some space in the garage if I could eliminate the buffing wheel.
Author:  doncaparker [ Mon Feb 07, 2022 11:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Festool Rotex 90–Useful for guitars?
I haven’t tried buffing with the Rotex 90 yet, but I’ve looked into the pads and settings. It’s all pretty straightforward. Set the sander in Rotex mode (geared rotation), attach a pad, apply compound, and regulate speed with the handset dial. I look forward to hearing about how it works for Terry and others. This is a great little sander.
Author:  Hesh [ Tue Feb 08, 2022 4:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Festool Rotex 90–Useful for guitars?
doncaparker wrote:
I haven’t tried buffing with the Rotex 90 yet, but I’ve looked into the pads and settings. It’s all pretty straightforward. Set the sander in Rotex mode (geared rotation), attach a pad, apply compound, and regulate speed with the handset dial. I look forward to hearing about how it works for Terry and others. This is a great little sander.


My Festool drill is 17 years old now and still used every day, great stuff this Festool!
Author:  dofthesea [ Tue Feb 08, 2022 10:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Festool Rotex 90–Useful for guitars?
Once you use a Festool you will never go back to other bands. The only problem is once you have one you want another.lol
Author:  bcombs510 [ Tue Feb 08, 2022 10:51 am ]
Post subject:  Festool Rotex 90–Useful for guitars?
dofthesea wrote:
Once you use a Festool you will never go back to other bands. The only problem is once you have one you want another.lol

100%

I have had a 5” ROS from Festool for a long time. I recently got a drill and vacuum work holder setup. Then I made the huge mistake of joining a Facebook group of Festool owners. I have never been able to get my Bosch miter saw dialed in 100% accurately. I drool every time that Festool miter saw shows up in the group. Must. Resist. :D


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Author:  James Orr [ Tue Feb 08, 2022 11:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Festool Rotex 90–Useful for guitars?
doncaparker wrote:
I haven’t tried buffing with the Rotex 90 yet, but I’ve looked into the pads and settings. It’s all pretty straightforward. Set the sander in Rotex mode (geared rotation), attach a pad, apply compound, and regulate speed with the handset dial. I look forward to hearing about how it works for Terry and others. This is a great little sander.


Ahhhh. I didn't realize rotex mode was actually a full rotation. Thanks!
Author:  doncaparker [ Tue Feb 08, 2022 11:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Festool Rotex 90–Useful for guitars?
Brad--

As we all know from Star Trek TNG, resistance is futile. :D
Author:  doncaparker [ Tue Feb 08, 2022 11:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Festool Rotex 90–Useful for guitars?
James Orr wrote:
doncaparker wrote:
I haven’t tried buffing with the Rotex 90 yet, but I’ve looked into the pads and settings. It’s all pretty straightforward. Set the sander in Rotex mode (geared rotation), attach a pad, apply compound, and regulate speed with the handset dial. I look forward to hearing about how it works for Terry and others. This is a great little sander.


Ahhhh. I didn't realize rotex mode was actually a full rotation. Thanks!


Yep! No worries. This is the cool thing about the Rotex 90. It can actually do four things with three settings. In Rotex mode (far left), the head both rotates (geared rotation) and orbits. So, you can sand aggressively with it, or put on a foam pad and buff with it. The middle setting is regular random orbital sanding. The far right setting is Delta mode, for using the triangular pads. I'm pretty happy with it so far, and I haven't really gotten to the buffing yet!
Author:  James Orr [ Tue Feb 08, 2022 1:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Festool Rotex 90–Useful for guitars?
doncaparker wrote:
Yep! No worries. This is the cool thing about the Rotex 90. It can actually do four things with three settings. In Rotex mode (far left), the head both rotates (geared rotation) and orbits. So, you can sand aggressively with it, or put on a foam pad and buff with it. The middle setting is regular random orbital sanding. The far right setting is Delta mode, for using the triangular pads. I'm pretty happy with it so far, and I haven't really gotten to the buffing yet!


It's definitely appealing. Are there any particular buffing pads or compounds people tend to use?

I also sent an email to Jescar asking if they have a recommended setup in terms of compounds and buffing pads, or if it's as simple as working my 175 and P204 onto buffing pads and going for it.
Author:  doncaparker [ Wed Feb 09, 2022 9:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Festool Rotex 90–Useful for guitars?
James—

I have not gone down the buffing road yet, but I know Festool sells their own line of pads and compounds. Since they are Festool, they are unlikely to disappoint. Also, look for OLF posts about the Adams Mini Swirl Killer, which has been pretty handy for me (thanks, Barry Daniels!). The pads Barry recommended fit the Rotex 90 perfectly. There are all sorts of compounds you can try.
Author:  James Orr [ Thu Feb 10, 2022 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Festool Rotex 90–Useful for guitars?
Thanks, Don. I found the thread where Barry introduces it and describes his process. Very helpful.

http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=52716&hilit=adams+swirl#p692840
Author:  TerrenceMitchell [ Mon Feb 14, 2022 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Festool Rotex 90–Useful for guitars?
Sorry guys, I've been spotty lately.

That said, I have tried using the firm and "medium" (not sure what it's called, but it came with the sander) backer plates on the ETS EC 150/3 sander. Because I use Assilex, that requires the "conversion" pad to go from Festool's super-crappy attachment texture to a normal velcro (hook-and-loop) so I can use a normal sanding disc product. The conversion pad holds like cement, but the actual festool sanding products fall off during use... anyhow, that's a subject for another thread I suppose.

Back on track... with either the firm or medium, you get the unfortunate side-effect of the conversion pad, which softens even the firm pad somewhat. So, the firm isn't truly firm, but I feel it does a better job of keeping the surface level, particularly on the spruce tops (and even the EIR backs) during sanding. I found the stock "medium" backer pads to form into the softer areas of the wood and encourage the surface to undulate with the firmness of the wood I'm sanding. Due to this, I only use the firm backer pad for sanding... and wish I could eliminate the conversion pads.

Back to the use of the Rotex for buffing... I tried the fine and super-fine pads from Festool, combined with Meguiar's Heavy-cut compound and 3M's 39062 Ultrafine Machine Polish (respectively) and found that the "Fine" pads "080" with the Meguiar's Heavy Cut got me a great shine quickly. When I tried to move on to the super-fine pads with the 3M, it only seemed to cloud up, smear and dull the surface... even after extended buffing times. Bottom line is, I could get a great shine quickly with the fine festool pads and a heavy-cut Meg compound. I'm sure there's another level of gloss that many people will want on their finish, and that might require more time and additional products. BUT, my customers who are buying in the $3k-$5k range have been pleased with the finish thus far. I may run into different expectations once we move to our next model of "performance" guitar that will be closer to $7k.

When I use the rotex with the Meguiar's, I put about a nickel-size amount of the compound on a 6" x 6" area of the guitar and with the tool off, smear it around the area I intend to buff. Then I turn the tool on, and move back and forth across the area at medium speed until the compound starts to tack up. Once it does, I slow down and look to get the shine I'm after... some times needing to focus on certain areas to get it done. I don't know of any backer pads for the Rotex that are intended to be used for buffing, and with the thickness of these Festool pads (~3/4"+) I can't imagine they would make any difference. The pads are thick and the disc on the Rotex is not a factor, unless you are going to push your body weight into this thing when it's buffing (bad idea ;-).

Again, I'm using Crystalac products for all of my finishing products, so I can't comment on any other finish for buffing in the method described above.

Happy to help further if I can.
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 5 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/