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Puzzled by neck carving (?) photo
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=54891		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  J De Rocher [ Sat Apr 09, 2022 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Puzzled by neck carving (?) photo
What's happening in this photo? It looks like the neck is still rectangular in cross section and the operator of the spokeshave is starting to do the rough shaping of the neck profile. With the neck attached to the body. If that's what's going on, what would be the reason for doing this with the neck attached and does anyone here do this? Or is something else going on here?

Attachment:
What is going on here.jpg
Author:  phavriluk [ Sat Apr 09, 2022 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Puzzled by neck carving (?) photo
Maybe the guitar builder wants to closely match the neck to the cutaway and is doing that with the neck in place?
Author:  Pat Foster [ Sat Apr 09, 2022 12:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Puzzled by neck carving (?) photo
Probably a classical built in the Spanish tradition. I do it this way; most of the classical builders I know do too.
Author:  J De Rocher [ Sat Apr 09, 2022 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Puzzled by neck carving (?) photo
phavriluk wrote:
Maybe the guitar builder wants to closely match the neck to the cutaway and is doing that with the neck in place?


On my guitars that have a cutaway, I have the side blend into the heel like that but I do 99% the neck carving with the neck off the body. For the cutaway-side of the heel, I take that down so that it's almost flush with the side with the neck off the body and then do the very final blending (last 1/32" or so) with the neck on.

Quote:
Probably a classical built in the Spanish tradition.


That would make sense. It didn't occur to me because I don't see a lot of classical guitars with a cutaway or with a heel with that shape.
Author:  Pat Foster [ Sat Apr 09, 2022 1:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Puzzled by neck carving (?) photo
Another tipoff that it's probably a classical - no fretboard inlays.
Author:  doncaparker [ Sat Apr 09, 2022 3:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Puzzled by neck carving (?) photo
Robbie O’Brien carves with the neck on.
Author:  Woodie G [ Sun Apr 10, 2022 7:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Puzzled by neck carving (?) photo
Probably one of the ways outlier techniques become main-streamed: a 'this is how I do it' post/blog/online tutorial/book turns up in search results often enough to be replicated by those looking for solutions. I like a flush heel on a cutaway, but other than the initial trim and final flush fit checks, carve them off the body.

I did a series of replacement archtop necks when converting Artcore archtop guitars to various flavors of Greek and Turkish shorter-scale, multi-course formats. We had a special set of tools to allow for a bolt-on joint on a f-holed body (a long, long 4 mm wrench and a magnetic gripper tool to get the bolts started). Had these been dovetailed necks, we'd have done the fit with temporary steel shims and lived with the extra fitting of the wood shims come assembly time. Either way, the bulk of the carving was done/would have been done off the body.
Author:  Pat Foster [ Sun Apr 10, 2022 10:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Puzzled by neck carving (?) photo
I'd say most classical builders build on a solera, face down, based on tradition. Robbie and some other classical builder "purists"--as I'd call them--take tradition further and shape the entire neck after the sides and top are glued to the neck. It makes for slow and careful going carving the heel where the sides meet it. Others do as much heel carving as possible on the bare neck before attaching the sides. Building classicals with a neck joint is slowly gaining wider use.
Author:  Clay S. [ Sun Apr 10, 2022 11:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Puzzled by neck carving (?) photo
Pat Foster wrote:
I'd say most classical builders build on a solera, face down, based on tradition. Robbie and some other classical builder "purists"--as I'd call them--take tradition further and shape the entire neck after the sides and top are glued to the neck. It makes for slow and careful going carving the heel where the sides meet it. Others do as much heel carving as possible on the bare neck before attaching the sides. Building classicals with a neck joint is slowly gaining wider use.



I think the traditional methods required greater skill with hand tools and relied less on jigs and fastenings. It entails a greater degree of "workmanship of risk" that many of us wish to forgo. With a separate neck/body construction I can bin the neck if the router slips.
Author:  Pat Foster [ Sun Apr 10, 2022 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Puzzled by neck carving (?) photo
Clay S. wrote:
Pat Foster wrote:
I'd say most classical builders build on a solera, face down, based on tradition. Robbie and some other classical builder "purists"--as I'd call them--take tradition further and shape the entire neck after the sides and top are glued to the neck. It makes for slow and careful going carving the heel where the sides meet it. Others do as much heel carving as possible on the bare neck before attaching the sides. Building classicals with a neck joint is slowly gaining wider use.



I think the traditional methods required greater skill with hand tools and relied less on jigs and fastenings. It entails a greater degree of "workmanship of risk" that many of us wish to forgo. With a separate neck/body construction I can bin the neck if the router slips.


True statement. "Traditional" to me means no sandpaper, no drum sanders, no table or bandsaws, no digital calipers, no humidity control, no spray rigs. Much more reliance on touch and feel. It shows when looking at early instruments. There was a lot more acceptance of tool marks, asymmetry and other imperfections that don't go over so well these days. But they accomplished amazing things with what they had. Wonder what will be said of what we've accomplished 100 years from now with our "meager" equipment.
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