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| Stripping lacquer http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=54948 |
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| Author: | Pegasusguitars [ Wed Apr 27, 2022 3:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Stripping lacquer |
I had a person show up at my shop today with a guitar that I made 41 years ago.It's in pretty good shape, but he wants it to look like new. It has enough finish damage that I agree it could use a new finish. Now that the good old, unhealthy, caustic paint strippers are gone, stripping anything is just a really big chore. i know that lacqur thinner will cut the lacquer and I can also sand the finish off, but I miss the wonderful nasty stripper that allowed me to totally remove the lacquer in sheets, with very little work. Just wondering if there are any formulas for magic stripper out there. No need to give me health warnings. Way too late in life for that.Thanks, Bob |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Wed Apr 27, 2022 3:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stripping lacquer |
https://www.mclendons.com/2722565/produ ... -604zipexp my stripper of choice at my age |
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| Author: | Dave m2 [ Wed Apr 27, 2022 4:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stripping lacquer |
Last one I did I used scrapers. It really is a bunch of work - not even sure I would do it now a few years later. It sure does teach you how to sharpen a scraper though! Dave |
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| Author: | Dave m2 [ Wed Apr 27, 2022 4:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stripping lacquer |
It must be nice though to see a guitar you made so long ago still performing well. Dave |
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| Author: | Pegasusguitars [ Wed Apr 27, 2022 8:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stripping lacquer |
Dave, Yes, it was nice to see. When he called me about the refinish, my first thought was "Crap, here comes a neck reset and who knows what else." Though it is way different than what I make today, it is structurally and playability wise still sound. Nice surprise! I doubt that some of the others I made back then have fared so well. I'm dreading the finish removal though. What used to take an hour with the old chemicals will now take half a day probably. John, Thanks. You'll never act your age!-Bob |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stripping lacquer |
Hi Bob, The easiest way I've found to strip nitrocellulose lacquer is to use cheap lacquer thinner and plenty of it. The cheap stuff is usually a little hotter than the better stuff. Wet the finish down with a paint brush, scrape off the surface with a plastic putty knife like you would spread Bondo with, then wipe the surface down with rags soaked in plenty of lacquer thinner to remove any remaining finish. The advantage of using lacquer thinner over using most strippers is that you don't have to neutralize the surface and are ready to reapply the lacquer once the surface dries. If you are feeling more adventures you can try "rebrushing" the existing lacquer finish as George Grotz describes in his little book "The Furniture Doctor" - fun read that gives pointers for patching up furniture finishes. https://www.amazon.com/Furniture-Doctor ... 0385266707 |
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| Author: | Pegasusguitars [ Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stripping lacquer |
Clay, Stripping with thinner sucks. I've tried that in the past. I may have to resort to that. I did plenty of stripping when i had a repair shop in town for 23 years. Never really had an issue with applying new finishes after neutralizing the surface. When you have experience with the deadly stuff, any other method is just miserable. It's hard to believe that someone out there has not found a work around for stripping lacquer.Thanks, Bob |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Thu Apr 28, 2022 5:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stripping lacquer |
Zip strip has been around a long time not too smelly and you can get semi neat with it once it works the finish comes off like a sheet makes quick easy work do read instructions first not after LOL |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Thu Apr 28, 2022 6:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stripping lacquer |
For most other finishes the Methylene Chloride strippers do work well, but for regular nitrocellulose I have better luck with lacquer thinner. Stripping finish is always a mess, and I have known some people who prefer to scrape the finish off with a scraper (furniture) We picks our poison and takes our chances. I never cared for sanding to remove finishes from instruments because it is too easy to take some of the wood along with the finish, but sometimes people will sand off the grime and crud, leaving some of the finish and then respray over top of it. This can help preserve the patina the wood has taken on over the years, provides some protection and improves the looks, but doesn't make it look "as new". The Zip-Strip Premium stripper John mentioned is good stuff and the SDS lists Methylene Chloride as 60 to 100% of its composition, the rest being methanol and Stoddard solvent (paint thinner). Not all Zip-Strip products contain Methylene Chloride. |
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| Author: | Chris Pile [ Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stripping lacquer |
Many newbees want to sand off the finish to do refinishing and are surprised when I tell them they should strip it chemically. When they again mention sanding my immediate reply is "It's ALREADY sanded. Why do it again?" Finishing is messy business, no reason stripping should be easy. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Sat Apr 30, 2022 10:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stripping lacquer |
bluescreek wrote: Zip strip has been around a long time not too smelly and you can get semi neat with it once it works the finish comes off like a sheet makes quick easy work do read instructions first not after LOL Is this stuff as good (or close to) as the now banned products? One thing to be aware of is (at least with the old stuff) it can melt plastic binding. Is this stuff safe for plastic? |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Sat Apr 30, 2022 11:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stripping lacquer |
Mike OMelia wrote: bluescreek wrote: Zip strip has been around a long time not too smelly and you can get semi neat with it once it works the finish comes off like a sheet makes quick easy work do read instructions first not after LOL Is this stuff as good (or close to) as the now banned products? One thing to be aware of is (at least with the old stuff) it can melt plastic binding. Is this stuff safe for plastic? The particular product John mentioned (Zip-Strip Premium 33-604ZIPEXP), is basically the old "banned" product. It may be a little hard to find. They also make a "Zip-Strip Premium" that is Methylene Chloride free, so things get a little confusing. Methylene Chloride will soften or dissolve many plastics. |
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| Author: | Pegasusguitars [ Sat Apr 30, 2022 5:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stripping lacquer |
Methylene Chloride is the missing ingredient in today's finish stripper. As far as I know, it is banned everywhere. Strippers that had it were the ones that ate plastic binding, so you had to be careful. I had thought I was good to go with a lifetme supply until the stuff totally ate through the metal gallon can it came in. I have tried all the strippers available here in hawaii, and none of them work on lacquer. What do pro furniture refinishers use I wonder? They can't be sanding the finish off. -Bob |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Sat Apr 30, 2022 11:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stripping lacquer |
Methylene Chloride is banned for retail sales. Consumers who were unaware of the risks associated with its use have inadvertently won Darwin awards. It is still used in industry, and is probably still available for professional use. You might check with a Marina or marine supply store that sells to professionals. For stripping plain old nitrocellulose I still prefer using cheap lacquer thinner, first wetting the surface and using a plastic scrapper, then soaking a coarse knit material like burlap and wiping the surface, and then using old tee shirt type material to do a final wipe to get any residual bits of finish. It does take quite a bit of thinner. And it has its own health risks. Stripping finish is always a messy job, and it has been years since I have had to do it. For other types of finishes I did prefer Methylene chloride based strippers which are hard to find now. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Tue May 03, 2022 3:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stripping lacquer |
Is Zip Strip plastics safe? |
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| Author: | Pegasusguitars [ Wed May 04, 2022 11:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stripping lacquer |
I had some time to start stripping the guitar today. I'm using Jasco stripper from Ace Hardware. It previously has not worked well for me. Today I tried the technique of laying wax paper over the stripper and letting it cook for 10 minutes or so. Workrd much better than just using the stripper without it.-Bob |
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| Author: | Chris Pile [ Wed May 04, 2022 11:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stripping lacquer |
Outstanding! |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Thu May 05, 2022 5:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stripping lacquer |
nice I used Jasco stuff never the stripper |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Thu May 05, 2022 1:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stripping lacquer |
So it did not effect the plastic at all? |
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| Author: | Pegasusguitars [ Thu May 05, 2022 6:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stripping lacquer |
Mike- Sorry can't answer that. No plastic on my instruments.-Bob |
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| Author: | Woodie G [ Fri May 06, 2022 7:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stripping lacquer |
Standard non-methylene chloride strippers are to be preferred for lacquer stripping. The principle error made with this material is application of too little stripper and failure to allow the stripper to properly form the wax-rich top surface and then gas off. Work-arounds such as using wax paper to seal the surface work against what is the desired end-state: a fully-separated lacquer and sealer layer adhered to a fairly dry crust of stripper, with surface needing only spot scraping on plastic binding or purfling. Multiple, too-thin coatings of stripper is an efficient way to achieve very inconsistent color, virtually guaranteeing that already thin plates will need to be further worked. Summary: follow the directions... work horizontally... use a generous coat that will do the job the first time around. Methylene chloride (hereafter referred to as MC)-based stripper is needed for polyester and aircraft-grade polyurethane, as well as certain uncommon finishes based on animal proteins such as cassein-based milk paint. Fullerplast and other polyester fillers and finishes are particularly obstinate, and cannot be fully removed otherwise without dangerously high levels of direct heat or mechanical removal. Aircraft or marine stripper containing the magic ingredient can be sourced from wholesalers supplying the aviation and marine industries. Certified Coatings aircraft stripper in five gallon pails is currently priced at about $130 plus hazmat and shipping fees - shelf life on MC-based strippers is quite good, so worth getting the larger container (the one gallon size is $80; one quart is $20 plus hazmat fees and shipping). If purchased from Aircraft Spruce, have it shipped from one of the local outlets (e.g., SE US, from the GA warehouse; NE US from Harrisburg, PA) to save on shipping, and be sure to comply with whatever use and disposal requirements are imposed by your local aspirant authoritarian regime. Also note that there are no special requirements levied on purchasers from Aircraft Spruce, as the assumed use is already heavily regulated and ultra-taxed by the Federal government through fuel excise taxes (so no state sales tax collected ...yippee!). To avoid the usual flood of tag-along nanny-nag notes whenever Master MC and the Gang is mentioned, please read before purchasing and using MC-based strippers: MC is a very nasty piece of work fully capable of doing lasting genetic and other physical damage. Effective, proactive protective measures must be used to mitigate transfer to the sensitive boy and girl bits of your body, as well as other internal organs, through exposure to fumes or direct contact with skin. As always, don't be an idiot. |
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| Author: | Carey [ Sat May 07, 2022 7:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stripping lacquer |
Stodd talk ^ |
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| Author: | Carey [ Sat May 07, 2022 8:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stripping lacquer |
" The principle error.." It's "principal", as long as that writer is being precious. |
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| Author: | Carey [ Sat May 07, 2022 9:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stripping lacquer |
Getting the wood to a ready-to-refinish state after using one of the strippers mentioned above is not trivial. My vote is generally to scrape and sand it off, with care. |
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| Author: | Carey [ Sun May 08, 2022 12:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stripping lacquer |
[quote="Carey"]" The principle error.." It's "principal", as long as that writer is being precious.[/quote] Maybe our ultra-correct Friend "Woodie™ " will correct, yet again.. |
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