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| Colortone Grain Filler http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=55128 |
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| Author: | Pegasusguitars [ Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Colortone Grain Filler |
I think I have tried every grain filler that I've ever come across. Always interested in trying new ones cause I've never found one I really liked. Really liked means "a lot less work than normal and it works.". Stew-Mac has some pricey powdered grain filler that you mix up with water. Kind of crazy price. Is it any good? Looks like they recommend using it without a washcoat, which is scary in and of itself.Thanks, Bob |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Fri Jul 08, 2022 3:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Colortone Grain Filler |
I nearly quit building guitars very early on around the first through the third guitars because I could not get pore fillers including the color tone one to work. No matter what I did it seems that sanding back always resulted in pulling the filler back out of the pores. It was maddening and again I nearly quit building over it. Then I read Mike Doolin's take on using System III (or any quality epoxy) to fill pores and I had good luck at once. He would mess with the viscosity with micro balloons and I did too early on until I recognized it was not necessary. Had an epiphany when learning to use epoxy and it was don't try to completely fill in one pass. In fact I learned that the two passes have different functions. Pass one with epoxy is to simply wet the pore especially the bottom so that subsequent fills will adhere. Pass two is the heavy lifting fill and since epoxy sticks well to epoxy the wetted and cured pore from pass one would attract the epoxy from pass two making pass two usually all that was necessary for a complete fill. Pass two was where you could for really bad pores introduce a filler to thicken it up. Doolin called for a constancy of "cold cream" if my life long pot smoking memory serves me well. With System III, West and even Bob Smith I could reliably completely fill in two easy passes slathering it on and squeegeeing it off with a credit type card. Others here had great luck with a small squeegee. You can leave a wash coat to pop figure or go all natural. It saved building for me and when I met Tony Ferguson and Joe White two pro finishers who were also using epoxy the very same way except with a foam brush and air driven tools for the sand back the struggles with pore filling faded away as a bad memory and one of the many challenges that building brings us now overcome. Bob back then I tried them all including what Martin uses and could not make anything work for me but epoxy. And to quantify when I say work I mean a perfectly, 100% filled surface with zero pores missed or incompletely filled. I have number 3 upstairs and was just looking at it too. 18 years later no visible shrink back, 100% fill. And as is always the case there are safety and health concerns with epoxy and other fillers, be sure to be educated on these things and this is a general comment before using too. I'm remembering what happened to Kim after reading about it here and on the ANZLF. |
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| Author: | bobgramann [ Fri Jul 08, 2022 8:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Colortone Grain Filler |
I’ve used the filler in a bag from Stewmac (it’s also sold as “Goodfilla” elsewhere). After my first trial, I ordered more in a couple more colors. I use it over shellac. After rubbing in as much as possible and letting it dry, the surface can be cleaned partially with a wet rag and finally by sanding. It doesn’t shrink back as much as any of the other fillers I’ve used, especially pumice which is my second favorite. Pumice and shellac usually takes me three passes, The bagged filler often works in just one pass for me. The only part of it I don’t like is the sanding back. A little goes a long way. I put about a tablespoon on an acrylic square, mix it with a plastic putty knife, and go to work. That will do the whole guitar. |
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| Author: | Ken Nagy [ Fri Jul 08, 2022 8:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Colortone Grain Filler |
I saw this on my Kindle this morning, and managed to thank the OP! I do much better on the computer with a keyboard. I rarely use my phone except for photos! Kim, on the ANZLF? I looked it up. http://mail.anzlf.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1056 I had something like that about 4-5 years ago, when I was still working. It went on for at least a month. My wife noticed it at first. Stop itching she'd say. I didn't know that I was. Then I stated noticing, and it spread from my arms to my chest. I have no idea what caused it. I went in to a emergency clinic one weekend when it was driving me crazy. They gave me something that didn't work, and then it was all over my body from my head to the bottoms of my feet! I went into my regular doctor. He prescribed a prednisone treatment for a week. It worked. Prednisone messes with the way that you feel, and you can turn into a monster. It made me very very hyper for a week or so. Not a fan, but it worked. To this day I still have no idea what caused it. I have been known to spread varnish; even Z poxy with my bare fingers. I didn't have Z poxy then. I now have a Jet air filtration box that I turn on high when I work in the shop downstairs. It is amazing how much sawdust the pre filter collects, just with hand tools. Some woods make my nose run, but so does eating. Spruce seems to make me sneeze. Maybe I should try using a brush. As far as filler. I did like Z poxy when I used it on my arch top. It would probably be even better if you didn't do it in a 50 degree basement, and have to heat everything with a heat gun. I used Z poxy as the finish as well. Again. don't do at 50 degrees. My hands have already corrupted the finish I had on the neck. I'm pretty sure it was the Z poxy. Turns it gummy and it bunches up in wrinkles. I scraped it all off the other day. Other things in the house are like that too, like the old dining room chair that I use that was my parents when I was young. You can peel the varnish with your fingernail. Apparently I have toxic hands? I used clear Aquacoat on a Padauk violin, and guitar. I wanted the color to be correct. It works great as a filler. The guitar looks great with clear Osmo semigloss on it. The violin not so great. My homemade varnish is good over spruce, maple, cherry, birch, walnut. It has that golden tint like the Z poxy that is nice if you want it. Over Padauk it just looks nasty. So Aquacoat is better with a clear varnish over it.I think it has some blue in it that is not compatible with the amber color. One thing I noticed. The matt Osmo finish that I put on the neck of the Padauk Stauffer guitar is unaffected by my hands. The finish is so thin it is almost not there. It can be refreshed by buffing with a very fine abrasive pad, and putting on a very thin coat, and buffing off. Of course, you will use your bare fingers. |
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| Author: | DennisK [ Fri Jul 08, 2022 9:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Colortone Grain Filler |
I would be leery of using any colored filler that needs bare wood. I tried some mahogany paste filler from LMI on my first guitar, and had already sanded through to new pores before getting all the splotchy color off. If I remember right I re-filled and got the same result again, and then switched to shellac/pumice. In hindsight I should have tried wiping on a coat of shellac, scrape or sand smooth, wipe on another coat, and then the filler. That way it would be kept out of the fine wood texture and only go in the pores, so the surface residue could be removed without cutting into the wood. But then it probably would have pulled out of the pores instead. Epoxy does sound great, but I also use epoxy for carbon fiber work so I don't want to risk becoming sensitized by the dust if it has to be sanded dry. Theoretically it should be fully inert if measured and mixed thoroughly and given plenty of time to set up, but I'm still much more comfortable wet sanding to keep the dust out of the air. |
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| Author: | Barry Daniels [ Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Colortone Grain Filler |
I always spray a couple of coats of thin lacquer on before using paste wood pore filler (the oil-based kind). Makes it much easier to almost completely remove the filler when wiping, and what's left sands off easily. This provides less of a risk of sand-through and opening up the pores. |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Fri Jul 08, 2022 3:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Colortone Grain Filler |
I had a lot of frustration with pore fillers too. The best experience I have had to date with pore fill is of all things CA glue. But I mostly use Aqua Coat now and I think that is the best of any of the fillers I have ever tried. I've not tried the SM stuff though. |
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| Author: | Ken Nagy [ Fri Jul 08, 2022 4:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Colortone Grain Filler |
jfmckenna wrote: I had a lot of frustration with pore fillers too. The best experience I have had to date with pore fill is of all things CA glue. But I mostly use Aqua Coat now and I think that is the best of any of the fillers I have ever tried. I've not tried the SM stuff though. I have used CA for pore filling/finish on fingerboards/fretboards. Even that is enough smell for me. It Does work well though. |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Fri Jul 08, 2022 4:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Colortone Grain Filler |
Epoxy works really well but I hate fooling with it. I also just use Aqua Coat now. |
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| Author: | Pegasusguitars [ Sat Jul 09, 2022 12:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Colortone Grain Filler |
Thanks for all the replies.-Bob |
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