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| Nigel Forster's Semi Hemispherical Fret Grinding Tool http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=55488 |
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| Author: | Toonces [ Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Nigel Forster's Semi Hemispherical Fret Grinding Tool |
A quick review and then a notice to say I'm selling it ($180 with shipping included). Nigel's Semi Hemispherical Fret Grinding Tool works extremely quickly and consistently. I tried it on a few fret ends and had the process down in under a minute. In point of fact, I don't believe rounded fret ends take any more time than beveling due to the time required to bevel, soften the edges, and polish the fret ends. The time element comes in having to measure and cut each fret exactly. Although, I think that part could be sped up with a template. I reworked my entire neck building and fretting process and I thought I would maybe do the hemispherical fret treatment (especially because I thought I was going to fret after the neck was attached to the guitar). My current process frets after the finish but before the neck is attached and beveling the frets this way is quite easy for me (I prep and temporarily attach the neck and do my fretboard leveling at this stage right before fretting -- works great for me). Additionally, I think I currently prefer the look of beveled fret ends because I add a slight bevel into the side of the fretboard and it's just a really clean look. I may change my mind in the future and if I do, then I will certainly get Nigel's grinding tool again. In short, I can't recommend this tool enough for those of you who want to do rounded fret ends - it takes a somewhat arduous task and makes it mindless. I would not even consider doing it without this tool. As I've gotten older, I'm trying to minimize repetitive tasks and fretwork is one of those things that can tire your hands quickly. --- Here's my current fret method if you're curious. I made an ergonomic fret beveling jig (25 degree) that I use first with a coarse cut and then a fine cut file. Then follow up with slats with 3M Stikit paper on them -- 400, 600, 800, and then some 1500. The slats look like little files with sandpaper and they go right in my beveling jig. This gives me a great finish on the beveled fret ends. I then bevel the fret ends, level the frets with 800 grit, and crown if needed. If I crown and I typically need to for a few frets, I follow up with 600 and 800 to remove scratches. I then use Mirlon Grey 1500 to clean up the fretboard and frets. Mirlon is synethetic steel wool and works incredibly well. The Mirlon 1500 gives the perfect sheen for the fretboard. Tape everything off and then polish the frets. Currently, I'm manually using Abralon and some Micromesh for polishing. Still experimenting with the polishing phase. |
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| Author: | Barry Daniels [ Tue Jan 31, 2023 7:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Nigel Forster's Semi Hemispherical Fret Grinding Tool |
I have tried a bunch of fret polishing methods and the quickest and easiest is using a small buffing wheel in a Dremel with rouge compound. This will take a fret sanded to 800 grit up to a high gloss with a couple of quick passes. |
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| Author: | bcombs510 [ Tue Jan 31, 2023 7:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Nigel Forster's Semi Hemispherical Fret Grinding Tool |
If you want to see a demo of the tool I gave one at the end of the last monthly meetup: https://youtu.be/f343sgqwMZk Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
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| Author: | Toonces [ Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Nigel Forster's Semi Hemispherical Fret Grinding Tool |
Brad, That is exactly the type of workflow and fretboard template I was thinking of doing if I were to use hemispherical frets. I had the same idea for a jig to hold the frets perpendicular to the grinding tool as well -- great minds think alike  !!!--------- Barry, What kind of buffing wheel are you using with your Dremel? I may get a small buffing wheel for my grinder and try that since I don't have a Dremel. |
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| Author: | joshnothing [ Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Nigel Forster's Semi Hemispherical Fret Grinding Tool |
I could never get better results with a dremel and compound than I did with hand rubbing micromesh so I went back to the manual method. I may not have had the ideal compound for the dremel - I tried a metal compound I use for stropping chisels and few different menzerna compounds. These work great on hard metals but never gave a great polish on nickel silver frets. I guess I need to look into a compound used for polishing jewellery? Simon, thanks for your description of your bevelling process. I generally do the post-filing polishing of the bevels by hand but really like your idea of sandpaper slats for the bevelling tool. I agree Nigel’s semi-hemi wheel is a great tool. It is very quick to use and overall well-made. |
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| Author: | Toonces [ Tue Jan 31, 2023 11:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Nigel Forster's Semi Hemispherical Fret Grinding Tool |
John, Scoop/slope the ends of the sandpaper "file" back and away ... you don't want the paper to catch on a fret and fold up on itself. I've thought about trying some PSA diamonds sheets from Atoma .. but the sandpaper is cheap and effective. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Wed Feb 01, 2023 12:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Nigel Forster's Semi Hemispherical Fret Grinding Tool |
Hopefully this ain’t a hijack but since we’re talking about a sorta similar thing, here’s my gadget for polishing the ends…  It’s just a piece of hardwood with the same bevel as the file holder.  You can slide a piece of sandpaper in the gap, and it’s press fit shut.  The main block just slides on dowels glued in the backing piece.  And snaps shut on the sandpaper. I start with 220 then move straight to 800-1000. Gotta be careful of the 240 as it will swiftly eat away at the FB corner, just do enough to take the file marks out of the fret ends (I use a double cut bastard). Works a treat and keeps the bevels very consistent. FWIW. |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Nigel Forster's Semi Hemispherical Fret Grinding Tool |
A bit of a different perspective from the repair trenches of a shop that specializes in top quality fret work. 1) No one has ever asked us for semi-hemi fret ends. Not once. I would be interested to hear from other repair shops on if they have been asked for semi-hemi fret ends. 2) Semi-hemi fret ends produced off the instrument and then later installed rarely line up well with each other when sighting down the neck (a critical ability that we need to be able to do) and this makes reading relief more difficult. In some cases we have seen small builder instruments where the semi-hemi fret ends are so poorly aligned with each other what the builder set out to do, display building/fretting chops is completely negated by what appears to be pretty... sloppy... work. The ends are not noticed, the lack of alignment is. 3) We produce semi-hemi fret ends and taught our students to do it too but we do it on the instrument with the frets already installed much like Simon prefers to do if I understood what he wrote above. We do ours with files that are very benign and even intentionally worn. When we were done with our fret buffer and OOOO steel wool our's are shiny and all look like a streamlined locomotive of the past. Again we are not intentionally trying to produce a semi-hemi end our methods simply produce that shape and always has. 4) In Michigan frets sprout.... and they do many other places too and the remedy is for someone like me who does not care about someone's poorly aligned attempt at semi-hemi fret ends. We approach the sprouted fret ends with worn files and take them all back to the fretboard edge. If it's a paid for service and not just thrown in with a set-up we spend more time and round things to near semi-hemi. On our fret dresses and refrets we produce semi-hemi ends and again taught our students to do so too. So to be clear I don't overly enjoy being a contrarian but the repair world, my world what we do is initiated by client demand and requirements we don't adopt methods and outcomes based on what we think is cool and interesting. No insult intended it's hoped that this will be appreciated as intended to be helpful. I agree that all the t's need to be crossed and the I's dotted and that small builder instruments benefit from being high-end with all the details addressed. I do not agree that semi-hemispherical fret ends add any value. In fact when poorly done, and that's all we ever really see so far, when poorly done AND done off the instrument and then misaligned in installation I think they cheapen the appearance of the instrument. Not ready for prime time comes to mind. On the other hand if you produce, however you wish, semi-hemi fret ends on the instrument and they line up with each other the look is very nice. Has anyone ever said to us "gee these feel freakin great I'm impressed?" No. The picture posted above is not semi-hemi fret ends. Semi-hemi fret ends are completely rounded with no flats. These look like typical fret ends with the hard edges broken as they should be. I also don't see a radical bevel of 25% or more and that's nice to see we like very minimal bevel and preserved fret top surface too. These look great but they are not what I would call semi-hemi. I don't have a picture of ours I'm home and it's 2:30 AM but if I have the opportunity and remember this week I'll see if I can capture something and post it. Fret ends are difficult to photograph. Now if I can speak freely like I do with my colleagues in the repair business I personally do not see why anyone would go to the trouble of producing semi-hemi fret ends when the function of a great feel can be achieved easier, faster and while preserving a valuable alignment that needs to be viewable now and into the future. I further don't see the value of producing these when there is possibility that under "normal maintenance" they will in time have to be filed back as they sprout (the neck wood shrinks...). Ok that's my story, bring it on I can take it   
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| Author: | Skarsaune [ Wed Feb 01, 2023 8:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Nigel Forster's Semi Hemispherical Fret Grinding Tool |
Hesh, I wondered, when I saw those semi-hemi grinding wheels advertised, how people were going to precisely cut the frets to length, grind the ends, and get the whole thing to look right when installed. I'm a rookie but couldn't envision that process. Sounds like you're seeing the results I expected. |
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| Author: | bcombs510 [ Wed Feb 01, 2023 9:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Nigel Forster's Semi Hemispherical Fret Grinding Tool |
Watch the video above  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
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| Author: | Skarsaune [ Wed Feb 01, 2023 9:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Nigel Forster's Semi Hemispherical Fret Grinding Tool |
bcombs510 wrote: Watch the video above I will, thanks! |
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| Author: | bcombs510 [ Wed Feb 01, 2023 9:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Nigel Forster's Semi Hemispherical Fret Grinding Tool |
Skarsaune wrote: bcombs510 wrote: Watch the video above I will, thanks! Skip to the last 10 minutes unless you want to watch the full meeting. Also, sign up and come to the meeting this Saturday!! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Nigel Forster's Semi Hemispherical Fret Grinding Tool |
But with that method you still have to very carefully place each fret in and press or hammer it in right? So doesn't that bit of human error still lead to fret ends that do not align up perfectly such that when you sight down the neck as Hesh mentioned you see irregularities? Not that there is anything wrong with that for customers who understand that this is what happens with this type of fretting style. |
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| Author: | bcombs510 [ Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Nigel Forster's Semi Hemispherical Fret Grinding Tool |
John, if your asking about what I showed in the video, it doesn’t really take special care when pressing the fret in. What I have to be mindful off is keeping track of the orientation of the fret itself throughout the process. Everything is based on using the slot edge closest to me (the bass side of the fingerboard) as a positive stop for the tang. As long as that orientation is preserved it all works fine. When pressing in its simply ensure the tang is slid all the way over to the side closest to me. Tap each side with a hammer and then press it home with a Jaws. Hope that makes sense. Words are hard here. If you have access to Michael Bashkin’s fretting course on Robbie O’Briens site, he goes into good detail about how to manage the alignment in a different way than what I do with the proxy board. Edited to add I don't want to make it sound like it's impossible to mess things up. I use the proxy fretboard to make sure everything is aligned well before I take them to the instrument. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Nigel Forster's Semi Hemispherical Fret Grinding Tool |
jfmckenna wrote: But with that method you still have to very carefully place each fret in and press or hammer it in right? So doesn't that bit of human error still lead to fret ends that do not align up perfectly such that when you sight down the neck as Hesh mentioned you see irregularities? Not that there is anything wrong with that for customers who understand that this is what happens with this type of fretting style. It definitely takes some care while putting the frets in but it is not all that hard. The biggest thing for me was the extra time coupled with the fact that nobody noticed or asked for them. I quit doing them - and no one noticed that either 
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Nigel Forster's Semi Hemispherical Fret Grinding Tool |
Yeah Brad that makes sense. I only ever did it once on a Selmer guitar since that apparently is what they did back in the day and it was the method used in Michael Collins Selmer/Mac book. It was a considerable amount of extra work for what perceived benefit is hard to tell. I'd love to see a vintage Selmer with the original frets if there is one out there just to see. When sighting down the fretboard of the one I built one could think, God that's terrible work, or, wow that took a lot of extra work... So it goes. |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Wed Feb 01, 2023 12:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Nigel Forster's Semi Hemispherical Fret Grinding Tool |
Just some ideas I had shared a few months ago in a different thread, and that may be of use to those who use or would like to try these sorts of fret ends: ********** I have done a couple of semi-hemispherical fret end treatments on new instruments with bound fingerboards. It is a lot of extra work, and some folks don't think it is worth it, but I like it, and so I have tried to think about the most efficient way to do the steps. All of the videos I have seen show a person taking each fret, one by one, from the raw, overlong piece of fretwire through the steps of making it the right length and rounding and polishing the ends. Then they move onto the next fret, and do all of the steps to that fret, and so on. I figured out recently that I can save a lot of work by doing it this way: 1. Measure the width of the fingerboard at every fret slot, and record those measurements on a chart. 2. Subtract the setback (times 2) from that length for every fret, and record those numbers on the chart. 3. Cut and grind every fret to the right length (per the second number above) and store in the caddy, in the right storage hole for that fret. 4. Remove the right amount of fret tang from all the frets. It should be the same amount every time. 5. Round the fret ends for all the frets, using a dished out Dremel grinding wheel (or something fancier if you have it). 6. Polish all of the fret ends with a buffing wheel and buffing compound appropriate for metal. 7. Install the frets however you normally do that, being careful to center the frets across the fingerboard. It is shocking how much wasted time you eliminate by just doing all 19-20 frets at the same time for each discrete step, instead of taking each fret from raw material to finished product, one by one. ********** And for the inconsistent alignment problem: ********** Quit using calipers, and switch to a flexible steel ruler that goes down to 1/100th of an inch, which you read with a magnifying visor. Fingerboards are curved laterally. Raw fretwire is either straight or has a curve that is different from the curve of the fingerboard. Calipers can't measure a precise length along a curve, but a flexible ruler can. I think the use of calipers for this particular measuring job is one of the reasons folks get wonky fret lengths. ********** If you don't like them or don't find them to be worth the trouble, that's fair. Don't do them. I agree with Brad's recommendation of the Michael Bashkin course if you want to try them. I think Michael's use of them shows that some builders of prominence see value in these types of fret ends. Not for everybody, and that's fine. |
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| Author: | Toonces [ Wed Feb 01, 2023 12:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Nigel Forster's Semi Hemispherical Fret Grinding Tool |
I agree with Hesh that poor alignment looks bad and it would defeat the whole point of putting in extra work for rounded frets. If you are meticulous, then you can do this on the fretboard but most of us would definitely benefit from a template. I was thinking about doing what Brad showed off in the video ... but maybe adding a positive stop for the fret tang to make registering the fret easier when installing. But you should be able to eye that well enough so that you get a straight line down the fretboard. You could also make a jig that registers off the top and side of the fretboard and that offers a positive stop for the fret before hammering and that's probably something I would explore because it would make the process essentially mindless -- and I love tools that prevent me from screwing up !!! The point is that there are several methods to address alignment and ensure that it is repeatable and effective. There are tons of operations in lutherie that have been made relatively simple with a creative jig/process. I certainly don't look at Hemispherical frets and think "oh, there's no way to hammer those in so the ends line up perfectly" ... BUT if you don't address that process correctly, then you end up with the kind of stuff Hesh is seeing. I do think it is a nice look. |
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| Author: | Skarsaune [ Wed Feb 01, 2023 12:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Nigel Forster's Semi Hemispherical Fret Grinding Tool |
bcombs510 wrote: Skip to the last 10 minutes unless you want to watch the full meeting. Also, sign up and come to the meeting this Saturday!! Oh I've been signed up since the get go but my schedule hasn't allowed tuning in! |
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| Author: | Barry Daniels [ Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Nigel Forster's Semi Hemispherical Fret Grinding Tool |
Toonces wrote: Barry, What kind of buffing wheel are you using with your Dremel? I may get a small buffing wheel for my grinder and try that since I don't have a Dremel. Here is the buff I am currently using. It is about 1" diameter. I load it with the rouge compound about every third fret. Other types of compound will work. I use to use a grey wax bar compound but the rouge works a bit quicker. I am a bit amazed that you don't have a dremel or some other rotary tool. I have about 5 of them but then I am a tool junkie. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07M78YG3L/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 |
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