Official Luthiers Forum!

Mr. Hall's signature block aphorism continues to ring true... there is so much to learn and so, so many ways to screw things up that those hoping to build or repair at a professional level must chose between being keen students of the craft or settle for some lower level of outcomes.

Watching the latest YouTube video from my favorite online guitar repair personality, I was struck by just how many mistakes were made in what was a very simple bridge reglue on a modern Martin and how easily avoided those mistakes could have been with just a few minutes spent on research of the task(s) at hand. That led to an appreciation of all of those here that - absent monetized content and 100,000 subscribers plaques - have made deep skill repair and build content available.

You don't know what you don't know until you know it. Another reason why I continue to suggest this site as a go-to information source for aspiring repair people and builders.

Related to the title of this post, I received a note from the boys in Germantown that asked me to fill in for a long weekend on a few jobs in preparation for closing the shop for three months (long-delayed repair of one of those chronic injuries which begin to plague those in their 60's that have enjoyed an adventurous life, and coverage for Mr. Morelli's pending shop move). The jobs involve redoing Huss and Dalton and Preston Thompson refrets done by a new graduate of an established luthiers' school. The regretful owner was somehow talked into the work with the promise that a freshly-minted, professionally trained repair tech was obviously a better way to go than the established, experienced techs in the area with long lists of accolades on enthusiast web sites. That the refrets were offered at cost of materials may have been a factor as well, as the owner is a full-time music professional.

Again... you don't know what you don't know until you know it.

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For the times they are a changin'

- Bob Dylan

What site is it then?

THIS site!


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Oh... Duh. LOL! I thought Woodie meant to put a Youtube link in there hahahaha.

Woodie, thanks for this post. It was apt to read today as I removed and reglued the fingerboard on a vintage Ric 4001 after someone else cranked inappropriately on the truss rods, separating part of the board from the neck. Adjusting these rods properly is simple but you first have to know that to treat them like a conventional rod invites disaster.



I repeat a similar sentiment to myself when I walk into the shop each morning, to remind myself to take a measured approach even when the job seems straightforward.

Cost of materials on a refret is like 5 bucks?

Pat

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Pat

Fretwire is up 3x or 4x in price here compared to five years ago. So more like $20 for the wire, plus there’s usually a new nut (blanks are up in price too these days, plus strings, general consumables (glue/sandpaper/yada yada)…


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About $6 per guitar with Jescar 80x40 NS wire, and closer to $10 in stainless. I have not seen the guitars yet, so won't comment on workmanship, but the owner is complaining of changes in intonation and playability after the refrets, so I suspect nut and saddle involvement, plus poor setup work, and who knows what else? All in all, the customer will likely see a bill which is at least double if not triple what it would have been had the boys from Germantown done the work in the first place,. This is as much due to the additional labor needed to undo whatever was done to the instruments as it will be to emphasize the need for caution jumping into a deal too good to be true.

At one point, I questioned this approach as one which appeared to unfairly take advantage of a customer in distress, but an overheard conversation back when I was at Greenridge cleared that up. A customer with a mom and pop plumbing service came in with an Eastman dreadnaught on which he had attempted a neck repair. After being given the estimate to make it right, he got a bit upset with the 3x multiplier over the usual cost (Mr. Stock mentioned both 'should cost' and 'will cost' by way of transparency, so there was no way the customer was not going to figure out he was getting stung).

The following exchange ensued:

Mr. Stock: Bob, you ever do a call where the homeowner tried to install their own water heater, and found out there's a reason why they should have called a professional?

Bob: Yeah... probably a couple times a year. What a mess. Had a guy that even tried to do his own gas hook-up and darned near blew up himself and his family.

Mr. Stock: So Bob, what do you charge them for fixing all that? You gave them a discount for the work already done, right?

Bob: Are you kidding? I gotta undo all the crazy stuff they did, then start all over to get it right. Sometimes they screw things up so bad that I have to junk the new bargain brand heater they bought and redo the house side of the work.

Mr. Stock: So you charge them double, right?

Bob: Not hardly... more like triple. You got to sting them a bit to keep them from doing something even stupider down the road. A little pain now to keep them from getting really hurt later.

Mr. Stock: Yeah... that makes sense. So what are you thinking about my estimate for your neck repair now?

Bob: Yeah... I get it. Seems fair to me. Hurts some, though.

Mr. Stock: Tell you what, Bob... let's knock off a couple hundred and you can consider yourself stung good and proper. That gonna work?

Bob: Yeah... appreciate it. Won't happen again.

_________________
For the times they are a changin'

- Bob Dylan

I love this thanks Woodie for sharing it!!! And again the customer is NOT always right and since the advent of Google they are more wrong than ever before.

Poor prior work is such a HUGE consideration for us that it's often the case that we simply decline and refer to someone else.

Guitar repair prices are way too low nation wide anyway. We charge less than a plumber or electrician and we are charing top dollar. It should not be like this. Both Dave and I have years of training and learning invested in learning to do no harm and make things better. We and everyone else in this industry who does good, honest work deserves to be compensated fairly.

I really enjoyed reading this interaction and Mr. Stock's approach was perfect. Thanks again Woodie.

And at the same time are even more convinced that they are right.

Love Google. The worlds greatest source of misinformation.

I'm buying a new car and when I looked up the Google answer for what kind of milage it gets (it's a hybrid) Google replied 26 city, 41 highway, 44 combined.... What kind of math is this and it's wrong and not what the EPA rates it at sheesh.

I get it on prices. Many one-man repair sort of operations like guitars and gunsmithing end up ridiculously under priced to the point where they drive themselves out of the industry. You'll never get anybody skilled to work for you when they make less than a gas station cashier. People gripe about cost, but they always gripe no matter how cheap it is. It is the same when you price a toilet flapper or a pipe coupling vs what it costs when you call a plumber to repair it for you.

I also get it on poorly made repairs. I've bought and sold a couple houses in the last 8 years, and it's a hard "No" from me when I see shoddy homeowner repairs or installation work. If I see junk tile work or bad drywall work, what's hidden inside the walls?

Back in the 80's I had some guys complain about my prices. I'd ask if they knew anyone who worked at Boeing (it was still here then). Then I'd ask how much that person made per hour at Boeing. Then I'd ask if they were worth the money. You can imagine the answers. Then I'd explain how long it was going to take me to perform the work. They figured out I was a bargain pretty quick.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince