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| I have a confession to make… http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=55668 |
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| Author: | bcombs510 [ Mon May 08, 2023 9:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | I have a confession to make… |
I’ve never installed a strap button in the heel of an acoustic guitar neck. It’s going into an instrument I built and the owner wants a pickup and a strap button. The heel shape is typical Martin style with an almond end cap. It’s a bolt on M/T with two bolts. Anything to avoid or consider besides placement and a correctly sized pilot hole? Brad Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Mon May 08, 2023 9:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I have a confession to make… |
Everyone has their own approach but what's worked for me countless times is 7/8th" from the body on the heel and 1/3 of the way down from the fretboard. For bolt on's it's a very good idea to get out your high power, rare earth magnets and interrogate the heel so you know where the bolts are and don't drill into them. When you screw the screw into the heel put a drop of Howards on the tip of the screw first. For pick-ups use a Stewmac reamer it's excellent and even though it's expensive it's a quality tool that has lasted me through hundreds of pup installs. Also see Dave's video as to why we do not use a 1/2" hole and how the reamer does what we want perfectly. What kind go pup Brad? I'm a fan of the Baggs Lyric for a lush, great sounding acoustic, Anthem for someone who wants more control over their sound and K & K for a budget pup that does not sound like a budget pup. |
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| Author: | A.Hix [ Mon May 08, 2023 9:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I have a confession to make… |
Drill a pilot hole first as well, for the strap button. |
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| Author: | bcombs510 [ Mon May 08, 2023 9:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I have a confession to make… |
Hesh wrote: What kind go pup Brad? I'm a fan of the Baggs Lyric for a lush, great sounding acoustic, Anthem for someone who wants more control over their sound and K & K for a budget pup that does not sound like a budget pup. TBD. I have both Lyric and K&K in stock. I have shared the pros and cons of each with the owner. Probably a Lyric. Thanks for the recommendations on the strap button! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Mon May 08, 2023 10:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I have a confession to make… |
I would check with the buyer and see what he prefers for button placement. An article I found online talks about the pros and cons of various placements: https://www.guitarplayer.com/lessons/th ... y-you-play I place the strap button on the tail block somewhat closer to the soundboard than to the back, so the guitar tends to roll into the players body rather than away from it. The other button is whatever the player prefers. |
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| Author: | Barry Daniels [ Tue May 09, 2023 7:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I have a confession to make… |
The Waverly strap buttons from SM are really nice. Waverly Strap Buttons |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Tue May 09, 2023 7:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I have a confession to make… |
I made the mistake of hitting a bolt once, don't do that! And I did this on one of my own guitars (SMH)  So my advice is refer to your notes for proper placement! Personally I like them on the side of the guitar with a block backing it up inside the guitar right next to the head block, or into it if it's wide enough. |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Tue May 09, 2023 9:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I have a confession to make… |
jfmckenna wrote: Personally I like them on the side of the guitar with a block backing it up inside the guitar right next to the head block, or into it if it's wide enough. I have done that a few times. It's the Doc Watson strap button location. When I do it, I have an additional support block that is glued to both the side's upper bout and the head block. I think gluing to both gives it a lot of support. But I mostly just install them on the treble side of the heel, avoiding any hardware, trying to be either equidistant from the top and back or slightly more toward the top (whatever the hardware will allow). I drill a pilot hole the size of the shank of the screw, and I scrape the screw's threads through a brick of bee's wax prior to driving the screw. I try hard to keep the pilot hole perpendicular to the face of the treble side of the heel, so that there is minimal gapping between the bottom of the strap button and the treble side of the heel. A felt washer can help any gap not matter. One final hint: Before driving the screw, I like to put a cam clamp on the heel, with one jaw on the heel cap and the other on the fingerboard. This will make sure that, if the screw acts as a wedge, that wedging action doesn't split the heel. To quote Robbie O'Brien: That happened to a friend of mine once . . . 
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Tue May 09, 2023 9:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I have a confession to make… |
Cam clamp is a good idea. Steve |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Tue May 09, 2023 11:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I have a confession to make… |
done thousands of them treble side of the neck about 1/2 up and 1/2 way out martin puts them there. no need for pilot hole but do use the correct bit for the screw you are using' |
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| Author: | bcombs510 [ Tue May 09, 2023 12:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I have a confession to make… |
Barry Daniels wrote: Good call, Barry. I ordered some of the ebony and chrome buttons and a bag of black felt washers. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Tue May 09, 2023 1:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I have a confession to make… |
Barry Daniels wrote: What I use too, they are nice. Steve |
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| Author: | Barry Daniels [ Tue May 09, 2023 1:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I have a confession to make… |
No pilot hole! You got to be kidding me. Why risk cracking the heel. Takes about a minute to drill it. |
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| Author: | phavriluk [ Tue May 09, 2023 1:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I have a confession to make… |
John's done a bunch of installations and has long since figured out the relationship between his drill bits and his mounting screws. Amateurs like me, never sure that the screw size I used last time is the same as today's screw size, need to use a pilot hole and measuring screws and drills carefully. |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Tue May 09, 2023 3:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I have a confession to make… |
I would agree mahogany does not really need a pilot hole but I do it anyway. So I have heard twice now in this tread to wax the threads, Ive never done that. IS it to make it glide in better? |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Tue May 09, 2023 4:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I have a confession to make… |
jfmckenna wrote: So I have heard twice now in this tread to wax the threads, Ive never done that. IS it to make it glide in better? Yes. Sometimes it is not necessary, but sometimes it is, and in extreme instances, the friction can be bad enough to cause a fair amount of strain on the screw or you. So, I just do this all the time when driving screws into wood, and avoid the problem. |
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| Author: | Barry Daniels [ Tue May 09, 2023 4:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I have a confession to make… |
I may not have installed thousands, but certainly hundreds. The thing is, the strap button is basically going into the end grain of a short piece of hardwood. I have repaired at least one guitar that had a cracked heel at the strap button. Just too risky. |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Tue May 09, 2023 5:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I have a confession to make… |
I always do a pilot hole and I wax the threads. Now I just scrape the screw threads across a small block of beeswax, although for years I just used a bar of soap. The reason is to lubricate the threads to reduce the torque needed to install the screw; it prevents damage to the screw head from the driver or even having the head twist off (think #4 brass screws as an example). |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Tue May 09, 2023 6:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I have a confession to make… |
Well hey, learn something every day. I've got one in now that needs a strap button so I'll see ho9w it goes. Do you guys wax screws like tuning machine screws too? For those in mahogany I don't bother with a pilot hole and they seem to twist in easy enough. |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Tue May 09, 2023 6:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I have a confession to make… |
Yep, I wax tuning machine screws too although for mahogany I just use an awl for the pilot hole. |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Tue May 09, 2023 7:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I have a confession to make… |
jfmckenna wrote: Do you guys wax screws like tuning machine screws too? For those in mahogany I don't bother with a pilot hole and they seem to twist in easy enough. I do. And I drill a tiny pilot hole for those, too, using an egg beater drill and a very tiny drill bit. I once had a slotted headstock (Honduran Mahogany) start to split a bit when I tried to drive a tuner screw without a pilot hole. I fixed it easily enough, but I’m never taking that chance again. Plus, I find guiding a screw in straight without the assistance of a pilot hole to be a pain in the arse, particularly with tiny screws. Pilot holes are easy, bee’s wax is easy, and they both make the job easier and less prone to problems. Not the only way to do this; but this is what I prefer. |
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| Author: | Terence Kennedy [ Tue May 09, 2023 7:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I have a confession to make… |
I'm pretty close to Hesh as far as position. I usually mark the hole location on a piece of tape and then use a guitar strap and hold it where the button will be and be sure it balances the way want it. I always mark with a sharp awl and drill a pilot hole and use soap on the screw threads. |
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| Author: | bionta [ Tue May 09, 2023 7:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I have a confession to make… |
A long time ago I read that soap is hygroscopic and leads to corrosion of screws over the long term when used to lubricate threads. Since then I’ve kept a block of paraffin wax handy. (Cheaper than beeswax. [SMILING FACE WITH SMILING EYES]) |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Wed May 10, 2023 6:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I have a confession to make… |
What John is doing is old school and many people learned that with mahogany no hole is required if you wax your screw. I use a pilot hole drilled after putting a piece of masking tape over the intended location and marking it with my awl. The tape comes off after the hole is drilled. I also chamfer the edges of the hole with a chamfer bit turned backwards by hand. I do this to the output jack hole too it can prevent finish chipping. We are not fans of strap buttons installed on a side with a backing block. It still.... still can put a huge load on a thin .080" thick side when the player puts a big load on the guitar. We have seen blocks that came loose, sides that cracked because of the load on the block and significant damage from this approach that does not happen on the heel. There should not be an additional risk of structural damage from the installation of a strap button. We don't charge for our strap buttons but our shop minimum is a full set-up or something similar or more substantial and then we do the buttons and throw them in. It's a great stalking horse to have the conversation "has your guitar ever been professionally set-up, no, well you are in for a real treat then..." Was asked yesterday to install a strap button on the neck heel of a uke. We asked them why they wanted it there. They didn't know and just thought it goes there. So don't be afraid to use your expertise and educate your clients. Slow the client down, find out what the goal is. They often know where they want to eventually end up but we are the experts in how to get there. Afford then the benefits of your knowledge and skill and they will beat a path to your door. FYI a strap button install from beginning to end should be a 5 minute or less thing and again, again watch out for those bolt-on bolts they get a lot of people. |
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| Author: | guitarjtb [ Thu May 11, 2023 6:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I have a confession to make… |
Never mind 
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