Official Luthiers Forum!
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/

Back to work #2 body
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=55769		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  banjopicks [ Mon Jul 17, 2023 6:52 am ]
Post subject:  Back to work #2 body
I cleaned the bench a little and working on french cleat tool storage and this body. I want make sure the sides are as close to square as possible this time to avoid sand through. I left the sides thicker this time as well.
Attachment:
FB_IMG_1689594664867.jpg
Author:  banjopicks [ Thu Jul 20, 2023 7:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Back to work #2 body
Managed to make a tail-block this morning, I should have mad 3 while I had it setup but I had leave for work. I know, not much but it's one more step done and fun. Hopefully I'll glue it in tonight.

Attachment:
TailBlock (WC).jpg


Attachment:
Tailblock2 (WC).jpg
Author:  banjopicks [ Fri Jul 21, 2023 6:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Back to work #2 body
I took the time to scrape the insides of my mold this morning so the sides will stay square and to the line. I then added some sticky back sandpaper to the mold where the tail-block goes and used it to shape the TB. I am trying to take a little more care with each step this time.

Attachment:
20230721_072051.jpg


My top and back wood are in pretty rough shape, mostly the back. Can they be flattened? My dehumidifier went on me and I just got it running again.

Attachment:
20230721_072834.jpg



Attachment:
20230721_072843.jpg
Author:  Ken Nagy [ Fri Jul 21, 2023 7:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Back to work #2 body
It seems to me that after gluing them together, gluing braces on, and then gluing them solid around the ribs, they will not look anything like what they look like now. I really don't think that they look that bad.

My violin, cello, archtop backs and bellies are never flat AFTER they are carved, and when they are glued on, the edges are flat.

I would get them wet, and weigh them down, and then get them really dry even in the hot sun. But then, I'm crazy. Something like humidity cycling to release stresses? Don't let them do whatever. Make them lay flat. Then join them, and thickness them, and brace them, and glue them on the ribs.

They will be flat.

When instruments are COMPLETE and finished, you can do the humidity cycling before final setup. Have strings on, so the final stresses are on it. After some cycling, whatever you feel comfortable with; do the final setup. It may not change, but it may change. Wherever it wants to be; do the set up then. At your normal conditions; 72 degrees? 45% humidity?

Chances are the instrument will NEVER always be at 72 degrees, and 45% humidity. But the instrument might be stronger after doing it.
Author:  banjopicks [ Fri Jul 21, 2023 7:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Back to work #2 body
Thanks Ken. I'll work on the top which isn't too bad and start following your flattening procedure on the back. It's a real potato chip and it's pretty thick. I put some weights on it to start the process but I'll need to add some clamps tomorrow. If it works, I have some Brazilian fretboard material that needs the same treatment.
Author:  banjopicks [ Fri Jul 21, 2023 7:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Back to work #2 body
This is how bad my basement got when the dehumidifier quit. These are fresh cuts.

Attachment:
20230721_072318.jpg
Author:  doncaparker [ Fri Jul 21, 2023 8:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Back to work #2 body
Richard--

Two things:

1. Ken is right that, once they are the right thickness, the top and back are flexible enough to conform to the arching of the braces you install, so potato-chipping is not that big a deal. However, be mindful of the fact that gluing the center seams can be a challenge if the two sides of the top/back are twisted.

2. If you are building at a high relative humidity (RH), there is a really strong possibility that, once winter comes and you heat your home, the RH will fall low enough to crack the top. I have had it happen to me. This is why guitar builders recommend working at around 40-50% RH when you build; the guitar can normally handle a drop in RH from that point or swelling from that point, but the wider swing in RH from building really wet to living in very low RH in the winter months tends to lead to top cracks.
Author:  banjopicks [ Fri Jul 21, 2023 8:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Back to work #2 body
Thanks Don. My basement is well on it's way back to 50%, it's currently 60%. I won't be putting the top and back on until it's at least 50% for a while. I won't let the dehumidifier win again, I have another one in my basket just in case.
Author:  doncaparker [ Fri Jul 21, 2023 9:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Back to work #2 body
The problem isn't so much closing the box as it is bracing the top/back. So, you should probably also hold off on installing the braces until you get the RH lower. Again, this is a sadness I have personally experienced.
Author:  banjopicks [ Sun Jul 23, 2023 9:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Back to work #2 body
I gave my rosewood a hot bath, stickered and clamped. Be sure to use figured maple and rosewood billets for clamping
Nothing else will do.

Attachment:
20230723_084043.jpg


Attachment:
20230723_084918.jpg
Author:  Ken Nagy [ Sun Jul 23, 2023 11:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Back to work #2 body
Hutch,
Be careful with your sticks. Be sure they are stacked on top of each other.

I would be so tempted to saw the Rosewood in half and carve an archtop.
Author:  banjopicks [ Sun Jul 23, 2023 11:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Back to work #2 body
Goid point, I'll readjust them. Thanks.
Author:  banjopicks [ Mon Jul 24, 2023 5:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Back to work #2 body
Ken Nagy wrote:
Hutch,
Be careful with your sticks. Be sure they are stacked on top of each other.

I would be so tempted to saw the Rosewood in half and carve an archtop.


That's my retirement stash. I expect to build a bunch of guitars out of that once my time is my own. This December I'll be 70, that's enough leaving the house every morning. Get ready for a flood Hutch guitar building threads. At least that's my dream.
Author:  banjopicks [ Mon Jul 24, 2023 6:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Back to work #2 body
It's time to make some kerfed linings. I have some walnut boards long enough and some mahogany, not Honduran but the stuff they use for deck posts. It's a little short so I'd gave to install it in 2 pieces. I also have a lot of pine boards. So, without spending more money, which would you choose? I'm leaning towards pune.
Author:  banjopicks [ Mon Jul 24, 2023 7:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Back to work #2 body
Oh yeah, I was able to get the rosewood back halves flat enough to run through the sander. I got them down to 1/8". I think I can joint them now but I'm waiting on a decision on a back strip. Buy or build. I'm leaning towards buying for this one just so I don't add another time sucker while I have little time.
Author:  banjopicks [ Mon Jul 24, 2023 9:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Back to work #2 body
banjopicks wrote:
I cleaned the bench a little and working on french cleat tool storage and this body. I want make sure the sides are as close to square as possible this time to avoid sand through. I left the sides thicker this time as well.
Attachment:
FB_IMG_1689594664867.jpg


No I didn't make the sides thicker!! I just measured them, they're .075" thick, WTH! I did sand them nice though and they do fit better in the mold. I'll have to be extra careful when binding to not take anything off the sides in the process. Next time I'm shooting for .100"+. Apparently I'm having too much fun with my thickness sander. [headinwall]
Author:  Clay S. [ Mon Jul 24, 2023 9:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Back to work #2 body
Thicker sides can be harder to bend and more likely to have "kinks" that you have to sand out (and wind up with thin spots). .085" - .090" is about as thick as I like to go, but some woods will bend well even thicker (walnut).
It looks like the guitar is coming along nicely!
Author:  doncaparker [ Mon Jul 24, 2023 10:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Back to work #2 body
Like Clay, I bend sides at 0.085". Some go thinner. Thicker than that is not easy to bend.
Author:  Ken Nagy [ Mon Jul 24, 2023 11:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Back to work #2 body
I made my cello ribs, and my guitar ribs; 1.2-1.6mm. That's about .048-.065" That's what happens when you start with violins. (usually those are a little thinner) That's where wood bends easy! The lining will hold the sides to the top and the back. Even cutting into the lining will not hurt. You just can't go TOO far down. Draw out a side profile, and you will see how different sizes of binding, and purfling will work. Think of the lining as the ends of the sides/ribs. The binding just covers the ends grain of the back and top.
Author:  banjopicks [ Tue Jul 25, 2023 11:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Back to work #2 body
Attachment:
20230725_103140.jpg


Walnut linings it is. Hopefully I'll have time to make the kerfs today or tomorrow morning.

Attachment:
20230725_111048.jpg
Author:  banjopicks [ Thu Jul 27, 2023 6:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Back to work #2 body
I'm running low on clothes pins and can only glue one side at a time. I'll have get the HWS and see if they have any.

Attachment:
20230727_065133_copy_800x360.jpg


I'm also looking through my wood stash for some backstrip material. I'll need to think on it.

Attachment:
20230727_072052_copy_800x360.jpg
Author:  banjopicks [ Thu Jul 27, 2023 3:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Back to work #2 body
I took the advice to order some of the components. I just ordered a herringbone rosette, herringbone purfling and D28 style back strip. I already made the kerfed linings and plan on making wood bindings. The only material I have long enough for 2 piece bindings is mahogany. I have some really nice figured male if I want to stitch them together. They are about 20" long. What do you think about doing that?
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Thu Jul 27, 2023 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Back to work #2 body
I would not do that. Definite compromise that will be visible.
Author:  banjopicks [ Thu Jul 27, 2023 5:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Back to work #2 body
Thanks Barry.
Author:  Clay S. [ Fri Jul 28, 2023 6:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Back to work #2 body
I saw a relatively high end guitar with pieced in wood bindings. It was a very dark wood and well matched so wasn't noticeable until you spent some time with the instrument. But I agree with Barry - find a stick of wood long enough to make a binding that will at least be long enough to join at the middle of the tail block, especially if you are using a light colored wood.
Page 1 of 3 All times are UTC - 5 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/