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Size 0: 1 tone bar or 2?
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=55903		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  SteveSmith [ Fri Sep 15, 2023 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Size 0: 1 tone bar or 2?
Been over 10 years since I did a Size 0. Laying out the top just now and the plan calls for two tone bars but it looks a bit excessive to me so I'm thinking one ought to be enough ... but... I'm interested to know what those of you that have done size 0 or similar size guitar have been doing. Not so sure about the 4 finger braces either, maybe I'm just used to seeing more real estate around the braces since I usually do OM size or larger. Whadaya think?

Image
Author:  meddlingfool [ Fri Sep 15, 2023 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Size 0: 1 tone bar or 2?
Lower bout width?
Author:  bcombs510 [ Fri Sep 15, 2023 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Size 0: 1 tone bar or 2?
I have built three parlor sized with single tonebar and two finger braces. I believe the plan called for this as well (Antes plan).

They sound good, if that helps. :)


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Author:  bftobin [ Fri Sep 15, 2023 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Size 0: 1 tone bar or 2?
If it's a typical 13" lower bout parlor, I'd go with one finger brace and one tone bar. Unless your top has some issues, one finger brace should be fine. I use only one finger brace on my OO tops.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Fri Sep 15, 2023 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Size 0: 1 tone bar or 2?
meddlingfool wrote:
Lower bout width?


LB=13 1/2"
UB=9 1/2"
OA L=19"
Author:  bcombs510 [ Fri Sep 15, 2023 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Size 0: 1 tone bar or 2?
I should clarify since Brent was more clear, I also advocate for one finger brace (2 total), which is what my parlors were.


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Author:  SteveSmith [ Fri Sep 15, 2023 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Size 0: 1 tone bar or 2?
bcombs510 wrote:
I have built three parlor sized with single tonebar and two finger braces. I believe the plan called for this as well (Antes plan).

They sound good, if that helps. :)


Hey Brad, do you happen to have a photo of a braced top or your template?
Author:  meddlingfool [ Fri Sep 15, 2023 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Size 0: 1 tone bar or 2?
One tone bar, one fingerbrace per side for me on a 13” parlour…Image
Author:  SteveSmith [ Fri Sep 15, 2023 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Size 0: 1 tone bar or 2?
bftobin wrote:
If it's a typical 13" lower bout parlor, I'd go with one finger brace and one tone bar. Unless your top has some issues, one finger brace should be fine. I use only one finger brace on my OO tops.


Top should be ok, it's torrified Red Spruce. Usually I'm right at 0.100" for these tops but this one came in at 0.120" after initial thinning because that's where it felt/sounded ok. It's a bit floppy across the grain for Red Spruce which is why I figured it might do ok in a parlor sized guitar.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Fri Sep 15, 2023 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Size 0: 1 tone bar or 2?
Thanks Ed, that looks more like what I was thinking. Looking at yours reminds me I need to slim the bridge plate down too.
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Fri Sep 15, 2023 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Size 0: 1 tone bar or 2?
I have made 2 O size guitars so not a ton of experience (though I loved the sound of both and neither have collapsed). Both are 13.5" lower bout and use one finger brace and one tone bar.

Before I became without a workshop, I was about half way finished with a OOish size that is also 1 finger brace and one tone bar. Pretty confident it will be good also.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Fri Sep 15, 2023 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Size 0: 1 tone bar or 2?
Sounds like consensus to me. One finger brace on each side and one tone bar it is. This is going to be a retop on a hog body.

Thanks everybody!!
Author:  meddlingfool [ Fri Sep 15, 2023 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Size 0: 1 tone bar or 2?
In practice I make my plate a little larger than on the template. I aim to make it extend 15mm from the back of the bridge at the center line…
Author:  SteveSmith [ Fri Sep 15, 2023 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Size 0: 1 tone bar or 2?
meddlingfool wrote:
In practice I make my plate a little larger than on the template. I aim to make it extend 15mm from the back of the bridge at the center line…

I make them a little larger too. The layout just didn’t look right to me, turns out I had put in a line wrong.


Steve
Author:  bcombs510 [ Fri Sep 15, 2023 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Size 0: 1 tone bar or 2?
SteveSmith wrote:
Hey Brad, do you happen to have a photo of a braced top or your template?


I think you’re on your way, but here it is anyway.

Image


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Author:  guitarjtb [ Fri Sep 15, 2023 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Size 0: 1 tone bar or 2?
This is a drawing I did of my 1937 0-17 when I had the top off for repairs. Personally I prefer 2 scalloped tone bars, with a non-radius gluing surface. This is the part of a guitar that resists the top belly. Of course, these braces are very light and deeply scalloped, so 1 larger tapered tone bar may suffice.

Attachment:
0-17dwg.jpg

Attachment:
IMG_9628.jpg
Author:  Colin North [ Fri Sep 15, 2023 3:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Size 0: 1 tone bar or 2?
Here's a pic of bracing on an L-0 I made, (13 5/8" wide lower bout. 1/4" wide bracing)
Worked out really well, loud and full, balanced sound.
Ideal "borrowed" from Bruce Sexauer.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Fri Sep 15, 2023 5:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Size 0: 1 tone bar or 2?
Brad, thanks for showing that, looks like you and Ed have similar bracing patterns.

Guitarjtb, appreciate you sharing the drawing, the deep scallops would certainly allow more movement in that area which is what I feel is needed. it's always great to see the details of the old Martins and I'm partial to '37's. The best dred I've made was based on a drawing of a '37 D28 that I got from John Arnold.

Colin, thanks for showing that. Kind of the middle ground with the short tone bar over the larger empty space. Bruce Sexauer certainly comes up with some good ideas. I based my multiscale 000 on his design (with permission) and it turned out great.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Fri Sep 15, 2023 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Size 0: 1 tone bar or 2?
My plan comes directly from the LMI 1-17 blueprint. Gosh, I remember the heady days of excitement buying a new blueprint…
Author:  Hesh [ Sat Sep 16, 2023 12:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Size 0: 1 tone bar or 2?
I would consider string tension. For example if you are intending to use 12's I would go with one tone bar if by chance like Taylor and their GS mini you are intending to use 13's I would use two tone bars.

I don't know what Taylor uses but they do ship the minis with 13's so some small guitar players do use them.

Any top brace is a hedge against top distortion as well as any tonal function. More string tension more top distortion.
Author:  rlrhett [ Sat Sep 16, 2023 4:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Size 0: 1 tone bar or 2?
In my misbegotten youth I made a series of small bodied guitars (13.5”-14” lower bout). I found following the “standard” Martin X brace for a dreadnaught to be WAY too much. The guitar may have only shrunk by 20% or 30%, but the bracing ended up shrinking by more like 50% to 60%.

Long winded way of saying one tone and one finger per side should be more than enough. Even then, you will probably want to go pretty light.


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Author:  Freeman [ Sun Sep 17, 2023 12:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Size 0: 1 tone bar or 2?
I have built three 12 inchers from the Scott Antes plans with one tone bar and one set of finger braces.

Attachment:
IMG_2372.JPG


They have held up well, sound good and are amazingly loud. The Antes plans are thought to be a bit over built so I lightened the braces a bit. Remember that those plans are drawn as tho you were looking thru the top.
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