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Chisels - buy vs no buy.
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Author:  truckjohn [ Sun May 26, 2024 5:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Chisels - buy vs no buy.
Since the topic of sharpening chisels came up, I'm curious about your preferences of chisels - buy vs no buy. I edited this list after WoodyG's comments about Ashley Iles needing significant regrind before they will run. I finally got to very good steel, they're now in the keeper stack,but it took a bunch of grinding to get to it.

Here's my current list:

First, the winners.

Image

Left to right:
Ashley Iles Mk2 (but only after grinding/sharpening back over 3/8" to good steel)
Buck Bro's Comfort Grip (about the best I tested for paring, but these exhibit huge variability. Some are awesome and some are just good)
1960's vintage Marples round neck with the embossed touch mark.
MKC Bevel Edge (Amazon specials. These are rebranded factory seconds, so quality could go completely to pot without warning. I got two sets and both were good, just know the score.),
Narex Richter if you just want to buy success.

The only one of these I might hesitate on is the MKC's, simply because you have no idea why the seconds are seconds. It could be cosmetic, or it could be bad heat treatment.

Next, the losers. Currently, if somebody asks me my opinion, these get a no buy.

Image

Harbor freight (no great surprise)
Everything current production Marples,
current Stanley,
current Two Cherries (Also a huge disappointment,)
current Pfeil bench chisels (useless mush).

I've tried a whole lot of other stuff including a lot of pre-war vintage, and it basically shakes out in the middle. Full disclosure, I have not tried out Veritas or Lie Nielsen chisels.
Author:  Duct Tape [ Mon May 27, 2024 5:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Chisels - buy vs no buy.
Most of those chisels will take a good edge, some maybe holding it longer. I like the Narex and the Ashley Iles (decidedly not junk) on your list. Also have and like Veritas. Just keep your honing stones handy.
Author:  Colin North [ Mon May 27, 2024 6:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Chisels - buy vs no buy.
Must admit I like the Ashley Iles (round backed) as well. Temper on the tip of a new blade can be dodgy, but cut back maybe 1/16th and I find it excellent.
Author:  Mike_P [ Mon May 27, 2024 8:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Chisels - buy vs no buy.
I'll second the choice of a Buck Brothers chisel...they are the best cheap chisel I've found and have been using them for decades.

HellDepot recently dropped them and are now carrying DeWalt...utter worthless pieces of cr@p.

Great Neck chisels are made by the same forge and while they have different descriptions I find them to be fine. It appears as if the Bucks with the yellow handles and steel butts are going away or something and being replaced by the style you picture...maybe I'll Amazon a couple of those at some point.

I use chisels far differently than you all...when I put a big chip in a 1 1/2" blade I usually just set it aside and get a new one because it's cheaper for me to replace it as opposed to spending the time to take out major damage ;) ;)
Author:  doncaparker [ Mon May 27, 2024 8:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Chisels - buy vs no buy.
I own and use some Lie Nielsen chisels; they’re good. My favorites right now are Stanley Everlasting chisels, the ones that have the steel going all the way through the black handle. You can find them on eBay in various states of condition. I like the weight in the handle, but more importantly, the steel seems to be very durable. Some rehab is usually needed, but they are worth the effort (for me, anyway).
Author:  bobgramann [ Mon May 27, 2024 10:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Chisels - buy vs no buy.
When I started, I had a set of blue handled Marples chisels—probably dated from the mid-80s. They were good and easy to sharpen, but they need frequent resharpening. I liked the shape—no ferrules at the handle joint to knock my knuckles when I’m carving over top my hold down hand— so when I upgraded, I went to socket chisels which also gave me the ability to switch out the stock handles for longer ones that I turned. I have the modern Stanley Sweethearts, a Lie Nielson, and a Woodriver. All perform about equally in my shop. For about equal performance, the Stanley Sweethearts are a deal. The Lie Nielson came with instructions to hone the microbevel at 35 degrees instead of the 30 I was used to. I called and inquired. They were firm on it suggesting that the tip would chip at the finer angle. I often carve bevel down so I can control the depth of cut and 35 just didn’t work for me, so I put the microbevel at 30. I’ve had no problems with that—the chisel performs like the others.

I keep a very old set of Craftsman plastic handled chisels in the drawer for when I want to do something disrespectful to a good chisel (like whack it with a hammer). My good ones cut without additional persuasion.
Author:  Ken Nagy [ Mon May 27, 2024 11:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Chisels - buy vs no buy.
That's funny Bob, because the 3/4" old plastic handle Craftsman is one of my favorite chisels! came with my father-in-laws workbench.

I have mostly older chisels. I made 3 into very useful fingernail gouges. I do have 3 newer chisels that I bought from the old Japanese Woodworker. 2 smaller blue steel ones, and their brand white steel in a 1" They all work good, the blue ones are tougher to sharpen.

I don't know anything about new stuff.

The really old plane blade that I use for scraping stays sharp forever.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Mon May 27, 2024 12:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chisels - buy vs no buy.
I have about 20 Pfeil chisels and gouges. They're all over 20 years old and they are good tools. One Ashley Isles I got maybe 5 years ago which works just fine. My old red-handled Craftsman chisel set is what I used as a carpenter over 30 years ago. I really abused them but several years ago I cleaned up the bevels and sharpened them, they are surprisingly good.
Author:  bobgramann [ Mon May 27, 2024 12:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chisels - buy vs no buy.
Ken, those Craftsman chisels did a lot of carpentry work, like setting hinges, and things a chisel shouldn’t do like prying lids off. Because they were so cheap, I guess I never really respected them. Until I got serious about building instruments, I didn’t have an appreciation of what chisels could really do.
Author:  Darrel Friesen [ Mon May 27, 2024 12:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chisels - buy vs no buy.
bobgramann wrote:
When I started, I had a set of blue handled Marples chisels—probably dated from the mid-80s. They were good and easy to sharpen, but they need frequent resharpening. I liked the shape—no ferrules at the handle joint to knock my knuckles when I’m carving over top my hold down hand— so when I upgraded, I went to socket chisels which also gave me the ability to switch out the stock handles for longer ones that I turned. I have the modern Stanley Sweethearts, a Lie Nielson, and a Woodriver. All perform about equally in my shop. For about equal performance, the Stanley Sweethearts are a deal. The Lie Nielson came with instructions to hone the microbevel at 35 degrees instead of the 30 I was used to. I called and inquired. They were firm on it suggesting that the tip would chip at the finer angle. I often carve bevel down so I can control the depth of cut and 35 just didn’t work for me, so I put the microbevel at 30. I’ve had no problems with that—the chisel performs like the others.

I keep a very old set of Craftsman plastic handled chisels in the drawer for when I want to do something disrespectful to a good chisel (like whack it with a hammer). My good ones cut without additional persuasion.


I have a new set of the Stanley sweethearts as well and they are solid performers. My go tos are my old 750 and 720 Stanleys though. They hold a great edge. I also have a few old Marples including a set of skews with the boxwood handles which see a lot of use as well. My Veritas detail chisels made by Paul Beebe are very useful as well. Too bad they don't carry them anymore.
Author:  truckjohn [ Mon May 27, 2024 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chisels - buy vs no buy.
It could just be that I got a set of duds from Ashley Iles, but I've tried my set all the way up to 35 degrees and even a buffed unicorn, and they just simply won't hold up at all. Rolled edges galore on work that other chisels handle fine.

All the ones I listed as duds have received many many different setups in an attempt to get them to hold up to actual work. "More frequent sharpening" isn't the problem, so much as the edge rolling or chipping the instant it encounters actual work. Most vintage stuff shakes out in that middle category - it dulls a little faster, but the edge doesn't just fall off. As such, you can get a lot of good work out of them while resharpening is fairly easy.
Author:  Ken Nagy [ Mon May 27, 2024 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chisels - buy vs no buy.
bobgramann wrote:
Ken, those Craftsman chisels did a lot of carpentry work, like setting hinges, and things a chisel shouldn’t do like prying lids off. Because they were so cheap, I guess I never really respected them. Until I got serious about building instruments, I didn’t have an appreciation of what chisels could really do.


I was working on the viola ribs, and I just noticed that the 3/4 chisel is a Stanley! It must have been from my dad. My mother-in-law worked in the Sears tool department!
Author:  kfish [ Tue May 28, 2024 6:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Chisels - buy vs no buy.
I have my first set I think of Hirsch chisels, the labels have long warn away, but they are good. I bought a set of Narex a Narex firmer chisel I like for shaping braces. A friend, on his death bed, gave me a 3/4" Marples chisel. Not a great chisel but I sharpened it as a blunt chisel and I like it so much I bought 2 more of different sizes and sharpened them as blunt chisels. Basically makes them small push scrapers and I use them a lot. Love my blunt chisels.
Kent
Author:  James Orr [ Tue May 28, 2024 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chisels - buy vs no buy.
I really like the way my Blue Spruce feel in the hand, and would love to try one of the Veritas with PM-V11.


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Author:  phavriluk [ Tue May 28, 2024 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chisels - buy vs no buy.
Any chisel you have, sharpen it. It'll work better, and seeing as you already own it, it costs nothing. Most of us amateurs can spare the time to sharpen a chisel. We're busy praising chisels we can't buy.
Author:  truckjohn [ Wed May 29, 2024 3:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chisels - buy vs no buy.
phavriluk wrote:
Any chisel you have, sharpen it. It'll work better, and seeing as you already own it, it costs nothing. Most of us amateurs can spare the time to sharpen a chisel. We're busy praising chisels we can't buy.


That is a very good point. There's a lot to be learned from different sharpening techniques and testing their results on actual wood. Some methods make amazing promises, and while they produce very keen edges, they fall off extremely quickly. Other methods may not produce that gilt edged keen-ness, but the edge performs quite a large amount of work before it exhibits damage or dulling.

I can't emphasize that enough... Test things. Do it head to head with things you already consider "Winners." It's amazing how often the new "Flavor of the month" tool or method delivers no better than average results when actually run head to head.
Author:  Clay S. [ Wed May 29, 2024 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chisels - buy vs no buy.
I like the old chisels I find at the flea markets for a couple of bucks. T H Witherby, P S & W, Berg, and I.Sorby are some of the better ones I've found. Often I get to make a handle for them that suits my fancy. I do have a set of blue handled Marples and another set of Two Cherries, both of which are decent chisels, but I still like the old carbon steel stuff, and not just because they cost so little (but that's nice too! bliss ).
Author:  truckjohn [ Fri May 31, 2024 11:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Chisels - buy vs no buy.
What I discovered is that much of the "Standard" production stuff coming out of China operates on a "Good/Better/Best" tiered system. These are all some flavor of water hardening steel. Alloy wise, the cheap stuff is like 1060. The ok stuff is like 1070-1080, and the best stuff is like W1. If you're willing to pay, they'll go outside that with whatever you want.

The thing is, when properly heat treated, W1 or O1 steel will give you most everything you could ever want in a good chisel. They're easy to sharpen and will hold a good, durable edge that runs for a long time.

The problem is that some retailers want cheap, not good, and so those makers are also happy to sell product where the steel is good but the heat treatment is only marginally adequate.

That was the surprise in the MKC Amazon specials. They advertise a flavor of steel that's equivalent to W1, but they also advertise good heat treatment. The stuff I got, while a little cosmetically weird, bore that out. I feel like it's sort of a shame that the Marples of the world don't sort their operation back out to give us some good tools. Sure, maybe they're tiering their product lines, but they could at least make the high end of their product lines good.
Author:  guitarmaker78 [ Fri Jun 07, 2024 1:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Chisels - buy vs no buy.
I’m pretty disappointed by my Ashley Iles. I paid a ton of money, thinking I was getting the best. They are inconsistent from one to the next. The ferrels aren’t even tight and slide off constantly.

I have a couple of Two Cherries curved chisels and I love them. Higher qc and look and feel nicer. Only problem with them is they are harder to sharpen since they are curved. But they hold an edge better than my Asley Iles.
Author:  SnowManSnow [ Fri Jun 07, 2024 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chisels - buy vs no buy.
I have a few blue spruce chisels. Expensive but very very nice I also have the seeetheart chisels…. Which are my do anything never fail set. It’s the sweetheart for me


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Author:  Woodie G [ Sat Jun 08, 2024 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Chisels - buy vs no buy.
To echo the comments above, any chisel will do for much of what we need them for provided it is sharp, so decent sharpening technique and the gear necessary for the job should be the first priority. Many choices given above, and I have a mixed assortment of chisels that run from saddle slot width to about 2" (an Ashley Iles for diamond volutes... seldom used and thus a luxury), but the bulk of the chisel work is done with a 1/4" Stanley 750 socket (squaring/tweaking truss rod slot, cheek relief on neck resets), a 12mm vintage 1970's Two Cherries, and the 20mm version of the Two Cherries.

I would also recommend against a set of chisels, as it's unlikely that all of those are really needed or will be used, and the money saved on those unnecessary sizes can go to other, more useful things.

On the Iles chisels... I recall the roundbacks we had were infamous within the shop for the amount of steel removed (close to 3/8" on one of them) to grind back to metal that would hold an edge. Once that was done, they were durable in use and for paring in tight spots close to perfect.

On the L-N 750 clones... they hold an edge better than the originals, but my 750's sharpen quickly and are lovely tools that will both pare and hold up to mallet work. Mr. Stock prefers the LN sockets, but he has much larger hands.
Author:  bobgramann [ Sat Jun 08, 2024 1:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chisels - buy vs no buy.
The beauty of a socket chisel is that you can make a handle just for your hands and style.
Author:  oval soundhole [ Sat Jun 08, 2024 10:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chisels - buy vs no buy.
Clay S. wrote:
I like the old chisels I find at the flea markets for a couple of bucks. T H Witherby, P S & W, Berg, and I.Sorby are some of the better ones I've found.


I feel the same way, plus who doesn't love a bargain. The chisels I use most often are all 19th and 18th century, my 1" chisel which is likely my most used is also a Witherby and a really excellent tool with great steel. I found a 19th century Sheffield chisel by Issac Grieves and became a big fan of that maker. I've collected about 6 at this point and prefer them to my modern chisels, even the Blue Spruce ones.

With that said I've just ordered a set of blue paper steel Tasai's so my perspective might change soon...
Author:  truckjohn [ Mon Jun 10, 2024 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chisels - buy vs no buy.
Woodie G wrote:
On the Iles chisels... I recall the roundbacks we had were infamous within the shop for the amount of steel removed (close to 3/8" on one of them) to grind back to metal that would hold an edge. Once that was done, they were durable in use and for paring in tight spots close to perfect.



:o :o

I went back almost 3/16" on mine before I gave up, and I thought that was crazy. They still roll edges like crazy. Taking off over 3/8"... Wow. For most of us, that would be several lifetimes of use.

You've got me curious, but I'm not sure if I'm curious enough...
Author:  bftobin [ Sat Jun 15, 2024 1:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chisels - buy vs no buy.
I'm surprised that only Brian brought up Japanese chisels. I have a 12mm and a 38mm long handled chisel. On these long handled ones, there is a slight bend that allows you to use them like a plane. They don't take much more time to sharpen, but the edge stays sharp a lot longer. I have some other chisels as well. The basic Lee Valley set I bought 25 years ago is still working fine and has very good steel. They still sharpen up nice and hold a very good edge.
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