Official Luthiers Forum!

Greetings everyone, and Happy Holidays.

During a lull in a conference in SF last week, I decided to pay a visit to LMI for the first time. I had meant to stop by Muir Woods too, but Windsor was a little farther north of the city than I expected, the weather was terrible, and I had to get back for a meeting.

I went with the intent of picking through some of the Granadillo back and side sets that were on special, and did pick out two sets. I can't remember the name of the person helping me - I am just terrible with names. Sorry. When I asked what people thought was new and exciting, he brought out a stack of Macacauba. It's nice looking wood up close, has a nice ring to it. This one came home too:



Everything made it home before me.

In trying to find out more about this wood, I've hit a little bit of a wall. Google searching for Macawood generally leads to sites (including the USDA Forest Service) that equate Macawood, Macacauba and Granadillo, either as an unspecified member of Platymiscium, or as Platymiscium yuccatanum. Most of the pictures shown online do look more like the Granadillo we've been seeing from LMI or Hibdon (example follows)



It's clear that the wood LMI sells as Macacauba is something different from Granadillo. Anyone know what's going on here? (I'll send this to LMI as well, but it may catch one of the wood expert's eye here.)

Jim

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Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

I love that first set--I'm just a sap for sap wood!

Macacauba, macawood, trebol, granadillo, are all of the Platymiscium genus. I don't know the exact number of species within the genus, but there are quite a few. It is similar to all the different maple species. Acer saccharum (hard maple) and acer macrophylum (big leaf maple) are in the same genus but are very different trees.
The differences between various species of platymiscium are not as dramatic as those between big leaf, hard maple, and soft maple, for instance. But there are differences in the platymisciums that have not been fully documented, probably because the wood has not been on the international market for very long.

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Stay with the happy people.
--Reynolds Large

I'll add to the confusion... I was sold this piece as macawood also. Looking into it I found the same ambiguity as you have.

JT, I've read your post three times and I still can't figure out which photo is supposed to be granadillo and which one macacauba.

I think macacauba is popular in Virginia, though.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Ronn, that's some bizarre, wild looking stuff! You going to make something with that?

Where'd you get it, if you don't mind?

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Billy Dean Thomas
Covina, CA

"Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur."
(Many fear their reputation, few their conscience)

Howard - Top pic is Macacauba, bottom is Granadillo.

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Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

Hesh - It wasn't Chris, and I didn't see him at all while I was there. I know they used to have pictures of everyone in the catalogs, but that seems to be gone in the new one, and I didn't save an older one.

Yes, the shelves inside the door looked like a treasure trove. I thought about starting to look, but figured I'd be there the rest of the day if I got hooked.

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Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

[QUOTE=Billy T] Ronn, that's some bizarre, wild looking stuff! You going to make something with that?

Where'd you get it, if you don't mind?[/QUOTE]

Billy. I will build with it someday... I got it as a plank off of eBay.

Wait, what is this about shelves by the front door?

I was in the neighborhood a month ago but didn't bother dropping by because my understanding was that you couldn't go and riffle through the wood, but only have them bring sets out to you.

Jim,
Sorry I missed you during your visit. You were helped by Geoff Stewart. Many of you are well acquainted with Geoff as he has worked here for over 6 years and really knows his stuff. It's his fabulous fretwork you hear in the on-hold message at LMI also!

Anyways, here is the write-up from our website,
"Platymiscium pinnatum -Macacauba (platymiscium spp), also called Macawood, is a hardwood from Brazil. It is very similar in appearance to Indian rosewood except the color is more chocolate brown with brick-red highlights (no purples, as in Indian). Occasionally we see gold-brown and very dark brown streaks. In use by a number of prominent Brazilian luthiers, it is quite dense, making it a responsive and lively tonewood. A limited number of sets will have bright, contrasting sapwood centers."

It is a really attractive wood. Send us a picture when you have completed the instrument!

rlabbe -It's true that we don't allow people in the warehouse to "rifle through the wood" but we will bring ANYTHING from our shelves to the over the counter area for you to look through, so there really is no difference. We keep people out of the warehouse for insurance reasons, to keep our shelves neat and so that our busy shipping people don't trip over anyone while they are pulling items for an order! A visit to LMI is always worthwhile (see our website for details).
-Chris

Here we go again relying on common names. The name macacauba is commonly and correctly (common names are always correct) applied to several species of the Genus Platymiscium, as is granadillo (varius spellings) and a host of other names. Most commonly you just see it as Platymiscium spp.

So what you may actually get under any of these names can be more like "catch of the day" than anything specific. If you were to buy from a lumber wholesaler, you might well get both (and maybe more) species in the same load.

The big question that I would ask is, "Why the huge price difference in the two when sold as guitar sets?"

Grant

Thanks Chris - now that I've seen Geoff's name in print I'll remember it better.

On the Platymiscium question, I have no doubt that two of them could differ as much as the two pictures above - look at Dalbergias after all. My question was more related to what you would get from a vendor if you asked for macawood or macacauba - it seemed that for most places you would get what we call Granadillo here.

Grant - When I tap the two sets shown above, it's pretty clear to me why the top set commands a higher price. It is like a good Dalbergia (BRW, Cocobola, ...) in terms of tap tone and feel. The other set is not quite like that.

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Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu