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Hello all,
I was reading around and have seen a few people recomending not to use a radiused caul to level frets. I have a stew mac radiused caul that I was going to put sand paper on and use it to levele frets after pressing. The reasoning is that well it is straight and already radiused so best of both worlds right! What are all of your thoughts. I have seen the viedos from stew mac and Dan (and Frank Ford) always uses something flat first and then uses a radius caul to ensure the radius is there. Do I need to go the way of their vast experience or try my method?

Thanks for any advice.

If you're building a steel string with a uniform fingerboard radius, then it seems to me that StewMac's radius caul would work just fine. I'm pretty sure you can neglect the differences in diameters between a radiused fingerboard and the slightly larger one once the frets are installed.

Situations where the radiusing caul would not work would be if you are installing a compound radius onto your fingerboard or if you are shaping a classical fingerboard, which is usually given a contour on the bass side for additional string relief.

Best,

Michael

_________________
Live to Play, Play to Live

Whichever method you use just make sure you use a quality straightedge to confirm that your FB is level before and after fretting. It's easy to apply differential force during the radiusing process and the straightedge keeps you out of trouble.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

    On a newly built guitar, you should never have to do any significant
leveling work on the frets if they are installed properly and the
fingerboard's radius and approach surface are machined accurately.

    Fret level work is more for refrets and work on guitars that have time in
the real world under their belts. The effects of humidity and temperature
changes as well as string tension cause the fingerboard to take on some
unpredictable curves that make leveling of the entire length of the fret
plain to be brought to a true approach again from time to time.

    I was with Bill Lawrence in his shop here in PA when he was here and
he had a great technique for doing his fret leveling on his brand new
electric guitars.He would only polish them with a large thick pad of
leather that was conpletely blackened from rubbing on frets for a couple
of decades. He'd press his frets in on an arbor press and the do all of the
end dressing and then he'd simply run this ugly old leather pad up and
down the length...allowing it to flop over the edges.

     After just a few minutes, the frets were perfectly polished and if you've
played one of Bill's guitars, you've experienced the results of such a
minimalist approach to fret installation and finishing.

    When I asked if he was going to work them with a leveling tool with
either an abrasive adhered to it or those nice diamond coated levelers
that StewMac used to sell, he answered, "If they're put in right, a file or
abrasive should never touch the frets until they're worn."

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega GuitarsKevin Gallagher39073.0370486111

I agree that the frets shouldn't need leveling if done correctly. For myself and my own demands out of a setup, I actually prefer a fret dress to be done after a refret. With an extremely low action, a fret a thousandth or two too high will generally be more noticeable than with a higher action. I just feel a leveling after installing is a nice way to complete the job and level the playing field, no pun intended. That said, when I had my 1980 D-28 re-necked, a fret dress was needed right out of the factory. Go figure!

    The production houses don't have time to address fret dressing and
polishing that a small or solo luthier shop does so a need for fret work right
out of the factory is much more common.

    I worked for Martin Guitar at one time so I understand the pressure that
their huge production demand puts on every worker there...especially the
final set up guys. We all know how much time is really needed to get a great
set up and tweak it as we coax the best combination of intonation, action
height and neck relief and it's just not available to thise guys.

    

I agree that very little levelling is needed on a new guitar, especially if you press in the frets. But, I, like Hesh said, use the aluminum radius caul from Stew-Mac when I need to level, and it works extremely well. And, as J.J. mentioned about varying forces: I switch the caul end to end and change my position to level from more than one direction to even out the pressure. Works very well.


Ron

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OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

Matthew do you have the aluminum 18" caul that StewMac sells or are you using the 8" wooden one?

If its the shorter wood caul I would only use it for final buffing of the frets say with 800+ grit sand paper.

The trick I learned from Tony Karol that works really well is to find a good dead straight piece of metal square tube. Cut it to about 20" in length. (I got mine at Home Depot). Double side tape a strip of 320 grit and 600 grit sand paper to it. Sand across the frets i.e. sideways following the radius (not end to end). Start with the 320 (checking with a good straight edge as JJ suggests -- Lee Valley sells them for a lot less than StewMac) then go to 600 to remove the scratches left by the 320. You don't want to remove anymore than necessary as if you do it makes for a lot more work when you recrown the frets after.

I hear what Kevin is saying and he is certainly more qualified than me -- but -- I have found that no matter how carefully you press the frets in (even with a caul) the frets aren't a uniform height for a host reasons including the wire itself isn't always uniform. Then again that could just be my pressing technique. Anthony Z39073.435

Anthony...how wide is your square metal tube? Steel or aluminum?

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

JJ -- 3/4" and steel is preferable. I've been using aluminum as the day I purchased mine, HomeDe[s]pot didn't have steel in stock. I ensured my hollow aluminum square tube was dead level by truing it up on big piece of granite.

I would love to have the 18" aluminum caul StewMac sells but the cost is a little hard to justify when for a few bucks the technique above works so well. I also like the idea of sanding sideways as it ensures a more uniform removal of any fret high spots than sanding lengthwise. [Sorry if that was gratitutous]

Hi guys
Adding to what has been said, I use a piece of rectangular aluminum tubing for fret leveling. My personal preference is a simultaneous motion of sanding with and across the frets. Also, to get a compound radius, (conical actually) I angle the straight edge to align it with the fret ends as the work progresses to each side of the fretboard from the middle.
It's interesting to see the irregular flat pattern that this generates on the fret tops as the fretBOARD has been sanded with a straight rather than conical radius. This irregularity (not to be confused with constipation) amounts to just a couple thousandths, or so, and is easily removed when recrowning the frets.
I too questioned the need of leveling frets on a new fretboard at one time but getting the compound radius is one reason as well as cheap insurance that they are all perfectly level.
This method was taught to me by Barry Daniels who has been building and repairing for many years.
Happy holidays to all!
Nelson

Added note:
Just about every factory made guitar needs a fret dressing. I just bought 12 Fender '51 Squier guitars and each one greatly benefited from a re-dress. Could be they only spend the time on the expensive models ( I have never bought a dozen expensive guitars, of the same model, all at once before). My experience is that factory's just can't spend the needed time to do the job right. I use a variety of Stew Mac tools...mostly the aluminum, radiused cauls and their wooden counter parts. The critical part is having the neck in the same position it is in when strung up. That is where Dan Erlewines neck jig is most critical. I think that most poor fret dressings are the inability of most tech's to duplicate that position. The slightest change negates the leveling done. So even a very level tool is useless if the neck is in a different position once re-strung.

Merry Christmas!Dave-SKG39073.6015046296

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Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

I haven't found the need yet to buy the StewMac Radius cauls so I can't
testify to how true they are, but if they are straight it should work fine. My
only concern with them has been how they respond to minor changes in
heat, either from your hand or friction when sanding. Aluminum changes
dimension so quickly with minor temperature changes, and I wasn't sure
how true they would stay when in use. On the other hand it conducts heat
so quickly that the heat probably evens out faster than it is built up, so
they are probably just fine. I still use my old float glass blocks and a
plethora of files.

Like Dave mentioned above though, it really comes down to the tech's
ability and care in setup. Even the Plek machines are useless unless the
operator has to savvy to set the guitar up in them properly. I've seen
guitars done on Plek machines that were perfect, and I've seen some that
looked like a monkey with a belt sander could have done a better job
leveling. Whatever tools you use, it comes down to preparation, knowing
how to use your tools and attention to all the subtleties of a neck.

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Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

Wow, glad to see so many replies to my question. I have the 8" wood ones. I will press them in and use 600 grit just held with my fingers on the sides while I go up an down the frets with blued tops to see when they are all hit. I understand that the small length might be too short so after thinking and reading the replies I will get my carperters level and stick some tape to it. I will file parallel with the centerline and try not to induce a compound radius. After I will take a couple of swipes with the radius caul to ensure the radius is there. Thanks all!

I am with KGallagher on this one but it has been very interesting to see what so many of you guys do. I have found that set up properly and "pressing" the frets in using the caul and brass radius guides that very little damage or problems occur at least in my limited experience. I must try the harness leather for polishing that sounds like a good idea.

Mike