Official Luthiers Forum!

I've heard it said that wild grained BRW is
unsuitable for guitar building..why is that?
Is it because the 'wild ' grain indicates a tendency for
the wood to crack?
I have been told that the wilder grain stuff usually
originates from the stump of the tree..but I also
seem to recall reading somewhere in an interview
that Jeff Traugott used reclaimed 'stump wood' and
some of his guitars have some pretty 'wild' grain.
Is the reason a tonal one..again I thought that the
physical properties of the timber (density,hardness
etc..) were the main factors,not the grain pattern.
So...whats the beef with 'wild grained' BRW??

Well the biggest reason is what you've already said-UNSTABLE WOOD !
Wild grain is usually -SHORT GRAIN -loaded with runout.
And short in every direction -in other words no long fibers to help stability with humidy changes.

Stump wood is loaded with compression!
Compression wood is just looking for a chance to let loose.
If you can get well aged pieces at a reasonable price it would be worth the chance.

Mike CollinsMike Collins39094.7015277778

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Mike Collins

I've seen tons of guitars from other great builders who have used the "stumpwood" with great success. To me, it has more visual interest than some of the straighter grained wood, but it does have a certain risk. But then, I guess I'm somewhat of a risk-taker.

Then again, some people like Imbuya for tonewood.
What's up wit' that? Eh Mike?

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Imbuya!
Don I never heard of it!
Do you sell some?
mc

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Mike Collins

When I was at Charles Fox' shop he had some gorgeous wild grain BRW that he was using to build his new Ergo line of guitars. I think he said he was paying about $900 a set for it from Allied but he had to agree to so many sets a month to get that price.

He was giving us a demonstration of the Fox bender and, you guessed it, he broke one of the sides. I think dealing with the back (assuming it is well aged) wouldn't be such a big problem. The sides however....

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Dave Rector
Rector Guitars

So do you think this one I just finished up will explode?



It bent great, no probs, but rosewood does tend to bend fairly easy,

I think it will John. You better send to me for you own safety.
Very nice by the way

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Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

You know I've build guitars with this style of grain for 30 years.
And believe it or not those beautiful curls in the lower
bout did show signs of cracks through the finish!
Even though it was a few years after the guitar was made and went through seasons humidity cycles.

But the darn stuff looks great !
mc
I agree with Jim !
Send it to one of us to take care of!
mike Mike Collins39094.7552546296

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Mike Collins

Broadly figured flat-sawn wood will amost certainly age less gracefully than its quartersawn,straight-grained counterpart. Cracks along those swirls, especially in the sides, can be a bear to fix. Cannot argue with the stunning beauty, however.
Charles Fox likens his instruments to highly-tuned racecars, built for maximum performance but not especially to last for centuries.
Oh well, we don't want future luthiers to have empty repair benches.......

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It's not the miles ahead, it's the stone in your shoe


In Markham,Virginia

Johno..
whoooooaaa dude!!!!!! that guitar is outrageous.
Send it to me for a few years so I can scientifically
ascertain it's stability..I'll send it back when I've
reached my conclusion..

John--

Stunning, just stunning. I can see why one might take the chance.

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Jim Howell
Charlotte, NC

Yup, sure was worth risking!

Killer git box
its a beauty alright!!!
Cheers
Charliewood

Raj,

Some BRW will crack if you look at it too hard . I love to build with it and have used alot of sets that were far from quartered but have also had alot of sets that I repaired and stabilized before I even got to use them in a guitar.

For the most part the vast majority of sets that remain today are not quartersawn and as such tend to show alot more grain and color variety than used to be the standard to build with. Back when Luthiers Merchantile was just starting out and were getting BRW sets from Huttig, a master quality set was quartersawn and tighter grained than what most today accept for EIR sets.

Because all BRW today is either from old stashes, salvaged from stumps or sold from questionable sources, the quality we see today would have been rejected in the past.

As the quality of BRW started declining (prior to the CITES restriction) I had heard that Martin used to bleach then dye BRW sets to even out the color and then flooded them with cyano to stibilize...I dont know if it is lore or fact but it tends to substantiate the instability of alot of BRW.

Look for straighter grain or anything close to quartered for the sides and you should be okay even if the back is wild.

I build classicals and as such use BRW more than a steel string builder would as classical players are more conservative and BRW is considered the top wood for backs and sides of a concert guitar.

What I do when I get sets in is seal the end grain with a wood sealer like anchorseal regardless of the source, age or grain of the wood. I do this as insurance against movement caused by any potential fluctuations in temperature or humidity. If I see any cracks or even potential cracks opening up, I will wick in cyano if it is small or epoxy if it is open and larger.