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I'm just starting the process of deciding how to brace a larger shape that I've drawn (16 1/4" lower bout). And for all the praises that the OLF has sent in Lowden's direction, I can't recall seeing that anyone else has copied some of his bracing ideas. Others do use the A frame below the fingerboard extension, but have any of you substituted the finger braces that are typically perpendicular to the X with another long brace running parallel to the X the way Lowden does?? (pics please if you have).
I'm also wondering if any of you have added a third tone bar in the lower bout when bracing larger lower bouts.
If you've done any of these, please comment on the affect you think they have on the tone of the guitar. I'm aware that other "lowden factors" must be taken into account - like the pinless bridge and the extra layer around the soundhole. I know your suggestions/answers can not be conclussive, but I thought I'd ask.
Phil

sorta like this you mean?





This was done at a class taught by Sam Irwin. One of George Lowden's original 4 employees WAAAAY back in the olden days!!

The guitar turned out great and is sitting accross my lap as I type this!!

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Phil,

Is this what you mean (Frank Ford's photo of a Lowden S23 bracing on www.frets.com):



This has the 3 tone bars but in no way is it a big guitar so I don't think it's a size thing. Only 2 ways to find out - play lots of Lowdens or build your own with this bracing pattern.

Martin,

I may be wrong but I thought that the bracing on your guitar is more typical of Avalons than Lowdens.

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

depends on what era Lowden/Avalon you're talking.....

When I looked round the factory a few months back there weren't ay double x braced tops around, but I have a mate with one.....

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Martin,

True. But both the Lowden S25 and F32C I have from the mid 1990's have the bracing pattern Phil described and as shown in Frank's photo.

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

dave,
that is exactly what i was asking about.
while the "s" is a small guitar, this picture to me looks like it's from at least the "f" and maybe the "o."
http://www.avalonguitars.co.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=411&sid =1272d702b9f1060c3b90d9c5bb86e838

hope this image shows up. don't have a clue what i'm doing techy-wise.

anyway, a big part of my question kind of remains. if everyone is so crazy about lowdens, why are more builders not imitating the bracing?
phil

Phil,

If Frank says it was an S23 then I'm sure it was. As I say the bracing in my cedar/EIR S25 is the same. I suspect that the answer to your question is that builders that like the Lowden'esque sound - and it is part of an Ireland/England sound together with Fylde, Sobell and others - have gone on and evolved their own design and bracing that build on it and work for them.

Speaking for me personally although I love F and S Lowdens (or I wouldn't own 2 of them) they (and I mean the "factory" ones here rather than George's hand built ones) don't have quite enough going on for me in the trebles. But as you say the A-frame upper bracing, soundhole re-enforcement and pinless bridge is/has been used by a lot of builders - including me.

As I say there is nothing stopping you from building with bracing similar to this and experimenting from there.

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

I agree Dave, most British made guitars sure do have that unique sound that differs from the US. I suspected that Lowden might be a benchmark, I'm happy that you have confirmed it.

dave,
i am certain that what frank ford says is an 's' is an s as well.
my last post was referring to the picture for which i provided a link but couldn't seem to provide the actual picture on the forum. (don't know if that's my computer illiteracy or a forum posting problem at work). check that link out and tell me if it looks like an 'o' to you as well.
dave, i also hear what your saying about the factory models lacking a bit of treble. that detail aside, by and large, olf'ers absolutely rave about lowdens but don't seem to copy the shapes or the bracing very often. i'm still curious why more are not doing it - and if anyone knows something i don't know that might keep me from doing it.
phil

Well, I'm shooting for early Lowden/Avalon AXX bracing on my current build.

I love the overtones and sustain this bracing produces.

I'd also appreciate anyone who can explain why George Lowden calls his bracing "dolphin style", please.

[QUOTE=Sam Price]
I'd also appreciate anyone who can explain why George Lowden calls his bracing "dolphin style", please.[/QUOTE]

My guess is the shape. Tall thin and triangular and the ends sort of swoop down in a shape that reminds me of the profile from the top of a dolphin's head to the end of it's nose. And George does that on porpoise Sorry couldn't resisit

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

Whale that explains it Dave, thanks. I cod've been trying to figure that one out for ages!!

Phil,

You mean this one:



Difficult to tell - it could be an F or it could be an O.

Not everyone "raves" about Lowdens (search the OLF posts) I think it's very much a love hate thing. North America has a great sense of "tradition" in it's guitar making and it doesn't surprise me that not many (if any) have gone down this route. For once Europe is the opposite in terms of tradition, but most of the builders here are "strong characters". Direct copy I suspect would not be their style (apart from those intent on building Martin or Gibson clones) and taking bits into their own syle is more the way.

But dude, the only thing stopping you is yourself. Go for it and let us know how it turns out.

_________________
Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010