Official Luthiers Forum!

Like I said in a previous post I have everything I need to get started on my first build. I was fearless two weeks ago, now I'm getting more nervous by the day that I am going to screw something up. I'll probably get started in about two weeks.
I have a question about who here uses a pipe to bend their sides and bindings? I am on a budget and I can make a hot pipe for basically nothing so this is what I am going to use. I know this takes more skill/patience/etc but I can't afford other options quite yet. What type of wood would be good to practice on? I saw that StewMac has 'practice' sides... will that work? Any last minute words of advise?

BTW, my dad who has about as much woodworking experience as me (virtually nada) thinks I should make a guitar out of plywood first.... closer I get to start-time the more I think that isn't a half bad idea! LOL

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Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils - Louis Hector Berlioz

Chansen / C hansen / C. Hansen / Christian Hansen - not a handle.

Christian

I think practice is a great idea but you don't have to make a whole guitar out of ply.
Just take some time with the things that you are not sure about. You could use any wood to try bending. It does not need to be something special to get the feel for the technieque etc.
Just go slow and remember that most things are fixable.

Wade

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Wade
Nashua, NH
http://www.wadefx.com

Don't be afraid. If you mess something up, just do that step over again.
I wouldn't use any plywood. You won't get a feel for how the "real" wood works. As you said, LMI has practice sides and Allied has their Opportunity grade rosewood backs and sides. They aren't half bad, streaking and pin knots but they will give you a realistic feel of how the bending works.
Fear not, you'll do fine!

You'll do great, there's nothing magical about it. Use fairly thin (.080, or so) rosewood, which you can get very reasonably, and take your time. Wet the wood liberally, with a wet sponge, and keep it moving across the hot pipe...all while continuing to keep gentle pressure on the point at which you want it to bend. When it's ready to release, you'll "feel" it. At that point, just remember to keep it moving, and keep gentle pressure on it. It'll move.

At that point, just continue wetting, moving, bending, moving, bending, etc...and begin comparing your bend shape to the shape on your plans.

And remember, this is a long process...bending a side to the shape of your diagram on your plan can take a long time. Don't get in a rush.

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Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

As Bill said, "don't be in a rush". That's very important when using a pipe. I don't bend my sides on a pipe but I bend my soundhole binding and Sideport binding. Fholes on my archtops are so tight that I have to use a soldering iron instead of any manufactured pipe.
Anyway, if you use rosewood, you'll get the hang of it very quickly. Rock it back and forth and don't BEND it but rather coax it when it starts to yield on its own.

By the way, if you really want to get some practice before you do your bend "for real", get in touch with Bob Cefalu, and ask him to send you some orphan sides that he has pre-thicknessed for you. Bob's great, he usually has those laying around, and they're very reasonably priced. Just a thought.

Also, the photo above is of a well-respected, long time professional builder who has built hundreds of guitars, and has never used a fox-style bender. He's not using gloves, or slats, etc. So before anyone comes along and declares that the process in the photo is unsafe, I wanted to point out that I'm not advocating the above photo as THE WAY to do it...but I've seen it, and done it, exactly that way. YOU do it however you feel safest.

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Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

*I'm not trying to dominate this thread, I promise.

But one other thing: remember to keep the side edge level and parallel to the floor as you bend it. In other words, if you "tilt" your side during the bend, you will have added a bit of twist to your side. "Twist" it too much, and you might get the shape accurate, but it won't lie flat on table surface. When you then go to rough profile the side (or sand the profile into the side in a dish), you run the risk of having to take a lot off the side in order to get the profile...thereby artifically making the side thinner that you wanted it to be. Don't ask me how I know this.

If this is confusing, someone will be along very soon to explain it more clearly than I have. Just remember to bend your side like a guitar side, and not like a Frito. Make sense? Look again at the photo above. See how level he's holding the side? That side has no profile cut into it yet. He's going to add the back profile after the bend is complete.   Hope that helps.

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Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

[QUOTE=Pwoolson] As you said, LMI has practice sides and Allied has their Opportunity grade rosewood backs and sides. They aren't half bad, streaking and pin knots but they will give you a realistic feel of how the bending works.
[/QUOTE]

I got a hold of some practise sides from LMI and had a play around and get the feel of working the wood over the iron. I then did a couple of builds using Allied's Opp grade rosewood. For the price the opp grade RW is good value and Ive turned out some decent instruments with the stuff.

Christian,

Come on over to my place on Saturday and I'll cut up some mahogany you can use for practise.

Doug

Don't worry all, I wasn't really going to build it out of ply...
Thanks for the tips and I'll do my best to keep my sides from becoming "fritos"... It may be a while but I will post progress pics along the way.

Doug,
Sounds good to me. I appreciate the offer! I'll bring over that aluminum I was telling you about too. Just email or PM the time, or I can just be there the same time as last time.

Christian

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Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils - Louis Hector Berlioz

Chansen / C hansen / C. Hansen / Christian Hansen - not a handle.

Christian

I'm a beginner as well and am in the "how wood works" phase while restoring a soprano uke. I know that in the new future I would like to try side bending. My only words of advice from my luthier friend is..

"If you screw up, remember this. At the end of the day, it's only wood."

Jim

The only problem with the practice sides from stew mac is that they are a little thick. I think about .090. I like to bend at .080. If you could thin them just a little you could get better results. If you don't have a thickness sander probably the best way to take a hair off would be a scraper or hand held random orbit sander with 60 or 80 grit sanding discs.

When I first started making guitars a few years ago my grandpa suggested I build a guitar from plywood first. I didn't do it. But I can tell you it's not a good idea. It would make the whole process ten times harder. Plus it would sound like crap.
It might not be a bad idea though to use a slightly lower grade wood for your first like AA instead of AAA.

Here is a link to some great detailed instructions on side bending.
side bending link