Official Luthiers Forum!

Hesh, I think our posts crossed in the electronic abyss. I was responding to your first post, not your second.

In your second post, you raise a good point about people calling you not to buy guitars but to sell you Amway. It doesn't sound like Michael's had that problem with his ad (at least not enough to detract from the callers that are interested in guitars), but if so, I'd be interested in hearing about it.

And since I can post three in a row at this ridiculous hour, one final thought --- if you need to weed out the looky-loos, then couldn't you just include your website address in the ad, not your phone number? Then you could have the type of screening website Hesh talks about, if that's a concern.

[QUOTE=Kelby] The purpose of advertising is not simply to persuade a qualified buyer to purchase your product. Sure, that is one purpose, but most advertising is directed at a more general purpose --- branding. [/QUOTE]

Well, in that case, I'd better not ever put advertising on my car. The way I drive, people would never consider buying something from a maniac on wheels. They'd never get anything but a quick glimpse of the signage...as I passed them and chewed them out for driving slow in the left lane...

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

[QUOTE=Kelby] Hesh, I think our posts crossed in the electronic abyss. I was responding to your first post, not your second.

In your second post, you raise a good point about people calling you not to buy guitars but to sell you Amway. It doesn't sound like Michael's had that problem with his ad (at least not enough to detract from the callers that are interested in guitars), but if so, I'd be interested in hearing about it.[/QUOTE]

I would have to say that I have received maybe 4 inquiries calls that had no chance at all of becoming orders. Each call took maybe 3 min max. Most non realistic prospects will show themselves shortly after they ask How much it would cost. I do not look at this as waisted time, but rather just a part of the marketing process. I have had at least 3 incidences over the years where a non productive prospect that could not afford one of my guitars later told someone they knew about me then they told someone they knew that later became an order. As well as one of the orders since I applied the signage to my truck came from someone that did not see the sign but rather got my contact info from someone that did.

I don't know. Maybe I like to talk to people too much, but I never look at any inquiry; even if I know it will be no productive as a waist of time

[QUOTE=Kelby] The purpose of advertising is not simply to persuade a qualified buyer to purchase your product. Sure, that is one purpose, but most advertising is directed at a more general purpose --- branding. [/QUOTE]


While I agree with your general points, I would dispute that advertising = branding. In fact I find quite the opposite.

Branding is the core of everything you do, it is the 10,000 little things (and a few big things) you do that shape what people "know" about you and your products. Clearly advertising plays a part in that process.

However, most people I work with seem to think that advertising either generates 1) Sales or 2) Sales leads and that is the reason they invest in marketing. It takes a fairly strategic thinker to advertise for brand. I agree with you that they SHOULD, but not many do.

With respect to the sinage on a car. I think the value of it depends. If you want to generate leads it is a cheap way to do it. It isn't a marketing "strategy" but it might be an element in a larger marketing plan.

And I think you could even address some fo the points Hesh brings up with the creative approach. Just make it clear it is a high end product that is personalized for discriminating players. That says - " it ain't cheap."

Another factor to consider is where do you drive around? In upscale neighborhoods or the projects? That too will color the response and expectations you get from prospects.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

[QUOTE=Brock Poling]......Another factor to consider is where do you drive around? In upscale neighborhoods or the projects? That too will color the response and expectations you get from prospects.[/QUOTE] What you drive will make a difference also. If you are driving your 1972 Pinto, I would expect different callers than A 2005 Lexus.

Hesh,
You bring up good points, but the proof is in the pudding, and this technique is working very well for Michael. I could be wrong, but I believe Michael is not trying to generate a lot of orders, just a few per year. For someone going full time, it would probably be silly to rely on this method. But for people like Michael and myself, who are trying to do about 6 guitars a year, this method could be great. I think people near me, especially in the San Diego area, might be thrilled to learn that there is a local guitar builder. A nice ad on the side of a nice car would certainly catch the eye of a "discriminating" buyer. Yes it will catch the eye of the kids that bug the heck out of me at guitar center, but around here, many of those kids have a lot of resources to buy almost anything they want.

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"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

[QUOTE=Brock Poling]
Ball park, of course, what does it cost to wrap a vehicle? Something SUV sized?
Again, round numbers or ranges are fine.

[/QUOTE]

It's a pretty big ball park because of all the variables. The main factors are: Size of vehicle, how much of it is covered, amount of design work required, and complexity of the installaton. Some vehicles, such as those with lots of tight curves or external bric-a-brack are much more difficult to do.

If I were going to have graphics installed on my Jeep Cherokee or Chrysler minivan, I'd expect to pay about $1,800 for a partial wrap and maybe $2,400 to $3,200 for a full wrap. These prices are a total SWAG, based on bits and snatches of conversation, as I'm not at all involved in the operations side. They also assume I would supply most of the base artwork.

Partial wraps are a great way to get a lot of impact.
There was a really good article on this in Signcraft magazine a while back. It's written for those in the trade but it has a lot of good info.

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D..

[quote]The trick is to have your marketing efforts present your products to people who are buying something like what you do in the time frame that the perishable opportunity exists. No easy task!!!! [/quote]

   I think we're talking about two different sales events and/or opportunities! If your at a show with a lot of people milling around, Yea! filtering just might be real useful, but a sign on a car is different, there is no real bilateral communication.

    I just went into Heppner Hardwoods today and mentioned building guitars and the guy lit up like a christmas tree.

     Now he can't really sell to guys like me, he's a huge warehouse type, but, he was really interested in the whole luthier gestalt. Most people don't even know one can buy from a private builder and get an even better product.

      Word of mouth for small builders is Gold, Jerry, PURE GOLD!

    Tacky sign on the ol'beater?

Besides Hesh Buddy, nobody buys your guitars anyway! That was your choice!    

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Billy Dean Thomas
Covina, CA

"Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur."
(Many fear their reputation, few their conscience)

I was speaking to a 30+ year luthier a few years back and he said the only advertising he does is a few times a year in magazines like Acoustic Guitar, but he takes out fancy full/half page spreads. He said he probably spends $15,000+ a year on advertising this way.

The strange part was why he does this. It is not necessarily to generate more business, but to help his current owners maintain/increase the value of their guitars he built/builds for them. I guess this is a form of brand building. He only builds about 6 guitars a year and most in the $12-15,000+ range, so his "brand" is already pretty exclusive.

I love the building part of guitars and the business part, not so much. That being said, I find this discussion absolutely facinating. I guess the reason I don't enjoy the business aspect is I don't understand it very well - I think this is common to many builders.

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John Lewis
Wannabe builder owned by 2 crazy dachshunds

what, no pic?

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com

[QUOTE=John Lewis] The strange part was why he does this. It is not necessarily to generate more business, but to help his current owners maintain/increase the value of their guitars he built/builds for them. I guess this is a form of brand building. He only builds about 6 guitars a year and most in the $12-15,000+ range, so his "brand" is already pretty exclusive. [/QUOTE]

That is an excellent point, and one I rarely see come up in these dicussions, but supporting your existing base and keeping your guitars in the "good investment" category is a very very good idea.

I heard Tom Ribeckke say those same things. Very smart.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

[QUOTE=Brock Poling]
That is great. Good for you!!

I have always thought that would be a good idea... but it wouldn't look right on my car.

Dave Bland can confirm this, but I think if you do that you can write off at least some portion of your car expenses as a marketing expense.

[/QUOTE]

Well...sort of...the actual act of placing the business name or logo or contact info on an auto does NOT in and of itself make the Auto tax deductible. The sign itself is deductible. The portion of the auto expense that is deductible is determined by keeping a "business usage" Log. Then at the end of the year you take that percentage of business use and apply it to all your costs (Gas, Ins., repairs, etc.) or you, more simply, apply the going business mileage rate and take that dollar amount. This topic is covered completely in our "Musicians and Small Business webinars".
If anyone is interested please p.m. for the site address.
I think it's a great idea...works for all sorts of businesses.

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Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

Greetings!

I would call my pickup having a full wrap I don't think you could put another sticker on the truck and still look nice. Total Cost for adhevise vinyl for my truck was around $400.00. I drive a small truck. My truck is done in a Water theme with splashing water on all four side panels along with company and manufacturing logos, telephone numbers, descriptions, etc. The door panels have the three primary companies I work with - Aquascapes, Noah's pArk & Playground and Waterlilies & Landscapes.

My primary customers are generally high end residential, comercial developements/properties, Zoo's and Golf courses. Very few of these drive the streets of White Oak, Texas. However, I travel Arkansas, Lousiana, Texas, Oklahoma and Mississippi so folks see my little eye catching truck and remember it. As you can imagine, the average consumer is not a targeted customer of mine. Interestingly enough, I rarely get calls from folks who cannot afford what I do.........why, don't have a clue, lucky.

I would imagine, if someone did a wrap around on Handmade Guitars or being a Luthier or Guitarmaker, etc. this would also be looked on as "high end" as well by all those seeing this vehichle driving down the road. It may generate some calls or inquiries, but I would imagine that if a web site was displayed prominently within the design they would probably write it down, pay it a visit and either &%#@ and fall back in it once they see the pricing, or, they email or call for additional details and serious interest.

Most of my business is created by word of mouth, projects on the ground in public areas and referrals on private sites. I do pick up some new business each year from my little truck and a few trade shows as well.

My 2 cents

Mike