Official Luthiers Forum!

Hello All,

I’m trying to do something a little different. Very little that is. I want to bend some wood for solid
linings. I tried to use some maple scraps I had laying around in my shop, but, when I tried to bend
the first one, it broke in about ten seconds. It was not well quartered, so, I’m assuming that’s why
it broke so easy. I know I’ve seen some pics by some fellow OLF’ers who use bent solid linings.
So, I know it can be done. However, there is another consideration in this case. This is where the
“something a little different” part comes in. After the box is complete, I want to sand right through
the edge of the top, back, and the sides to let the lining show. I’m not sure how different this
really is, but, it sure will look different to me!

So, I’ve been asking myself, what species of wood will go best with, mahogany sides, spruce top,
and a Pau Ferro back, along with a Pau Ferro rosette? Maybe ebony, since black goes with anything.
I should be able to find 4 pieces of very well quartered wood at the dimensions of 5/16" X 9/16" X 36".
Or at least a piece of 1" X something from one of our fine suppliers here at the OLF.

That still leaves the question-

What kind of wood will bend best at these dimensions?

Also, has anyone else thought about doing this?

Of course, any and all suggestions how to proceed, would be greatly appreciated too!

Robert

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Everything has beauty, But, not everyone see's it!

Robert, ISTM that if you sand through the sides to the lining, it reduces the strength of your sides by a tremendous amount.  All that thinned down wood glued to linings will not leave you with any stiffness in the sides to support the tension on the top.  Of course I really don't know, now, do I?

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

I don't think 1 piece linings are usually used; instead, 2 or 3ply laminates made from 2-2.5mm stripes. 

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Build log

Lots of people route through the sides when binding. Once the binding's glued back in place, it's certainly not any weaker.

Hi Hesh,

Actually this is not exactly what you and I discussed. This is a simpler version. The one you and I
talked about, got little a complicated, and needs more work before I’ll attempt it.

The following are a couple of drawings, that might answer some questions, but, then on the other
hand, may give rise to more.

Please keep in mind, that these drawings are in the beginning stages, and they do not convert to .jpg
very well, so the quality is not the best. Also, please note. The reason for drawing in 1 foot = 1 inch,
is that, it is nearly impossible to draw in .001" range. It makes it easy for printing though.
When I print 1" = 1', I can produce actual size.

Waddy, if you look at the 2nd drawing, which I believe is the standard set up, you’ll notice that
there is very little top left glued to the lining. In the first drawing, there is quite a bit more of the top
glued to the proposed solid lining.

Of course, this is all done in a perfect world, and no doubt, there will be adjustments to make.

Hope this helps

Robert

_________________
Everything has beauty, But, not everyone see's it!

5/16 (8mm)is very thick for bending, in my experience anything greater than 4 mm is difficult, kinks, wrinkles, even if well quartered it will break if there is any runout.

Do you plan to leave the end grain of the top exposed on the final guitar?

Hi Robert,
The wood you are looking for is willow.
This is the traditional wood that violin guys (including Stradaverius)use for solid linings.
It bends like rubber!!
The only problem is itis kind of hard to find-try violin supply.
I used it on the classical I just made in approx. the dimensions you describe.
I will see if I can dig up a picture.
Brad

Robert,
my good friend Yaron, an industrial designer by day and an amateur lutier by night is doing something very similar!
he used a 4(or 5) piece solid lining laminate, in a staircase configuration(ill ask him to join in and send pics as this is hard to describe) and he intends to route to edges of the guitar in such a way that he will have a small continous (arm-rest) all along the guitar.

I'd go with lamination too. As long as your first, outside layer is wider than what is exposed by the rout, then there will be no visual effect. You could also make the lamination fairly thick (add a final narrower strip) on the top and back edges to get the glue joint as wide as you think is necessary. I think it is a neat idea.

Holly could be worth trying too.

Marc - My older style Larrivee parlor is all unbound, and the endgrain on top and back seems to hold up fine. Of course, I haven't really bashed it against anything.

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Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

Marc, you’re right about it being thick for a hot pipe. However, I have bent even thicker wood
than that. I also have built bows (archery bows). The big difference though, is that when I bend
wood for a re-curve bow, I use hot air, rather than a hot pipe. Even a charcoal grill can work for
that. And, I just may have to use that old technique again!

To answer your question, yes! I really like the look of end grain when it’s radius cut, and finely
sanded.

Brad, thanks for the info. I’ll be looking forward to a pic of the willow. I have to wonder though,
will the color of willow go with mahogany, and pau ferro.

Vachterm, thank you too! And, I would very much like to see what your friend is working on.

Jim, thanks to you also for your comments. Seems the idea of lamination is a popular one! I have
to admit, it sounds like the sensible way to go. But, I sure would like to make a one piece solid
one work.

BTW, after I posted my drawings, I realized they didn’t look to good. I apologize for that.
I’ve got to figure out a way to convert these drawings, so they have more detail. Maybe a fellow
OLFer could help with this?

Thanks again,

Robert

_________________
Everything has beauty, But, not everyone see's it!

Robert,
Here are the pics of the one piece willow back linings-they are very close in color to the spruce back braces:

Hi Brad, Thanks for the pics!

That’s some real nice work there!

The lining looks great, and I believe the color would go well in many cases. However, in this,
considering what I’m trying to do, I think I need to stay with something in a brown tone range.
Something that will complement the Pau Ferro.

I just cut a piece wood yesterday, that I will test today. I have no idea what species it is. I bought
it about 4 years ago from an exotic wood supplier in Atlanta. I cut it to 5/16" X 9/16", and, I’m
thinking about soaking it in water, for maybe, 30 minutes or so, since it is so thick.

Here’s a pic of the piece!

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Everything has beauty, But, not everyone see's it!