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Hi Folks,

I have been studying the different methods for building an acoustic guitar neck, and was wondering which you use, and why. 

Cumpiano's book identifies the scarf joint as the preferred method.  Alot of others carve from a single piece, or laminate.  I have also been reading Kinkead's method (instead of a scarf joint, he cuts a 6" piece, glues it to the neck, and then bandsaws the headstock angle).

I realize there are MANY ways to do this - just wondering what you do and why you do it.  I have found these types of conversations to be tremendously helpful and have learned a great deal from this forum.

Thanks!

Glenn

Be careful with Kinkeads method, his angle may be a bit shallow. I am using 3 pieces of wood to get it up to thickness. With a sled you can do it easy on the tablesaw, there are plans out there. I did it with a japanese saw and jointer. Not too bad.

there are two ways to join the scarf joint.

stick the head to the underside of the neck, so having the glue join paralel to the fretboard, on the headstock, with tuner holes drilled close to, or through the joint

or onto the end of the neck so having the glue join paralel to the head with the fretboard supporting the join.

Most of my necks I carve from either a single block or laminate, but if I was going to scarf, (and I have done a few) I'd always go the second way. just looks stronger TO ME

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I use a scarf joint simply because I don't have a band saw that is big enough to cut two necks from a large blank, and it seems that 1"x3" blanks are a better value.  I use the jig on Kathy Matsushita's site with my table saw to cut the joint.  I figure that since there doesn't seem to be any 'stigma' associated with a stacked heel or scarf joint neck where buyers think that it is lower quality, I will most likely keep on using them. With Honduran Mahogany getting bumped in the Cites list, it is my guess that one piece Honduran Mahogany necks will become a rare thing not too long from now and laminate or scarf necks will be the standard.

Scarf joints and stacked heels on classical guitars are standard. You don't see a lot of solid heels or laminated necks there. Sometimes V-joints instead of scarf joints on the heads.

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Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

[QUOTE=davidmor] I use a scarf joint simply because I don't have a band saw that is big enough to cut two necks from a large blank

it is my guess that one piece Honduran Mahogany necks will become a rare thing not too long from now [/QUOTE]

David, what size bandsaw do you have? I use a delta 14 to saw two blanks out of a laid up block. 4 inches is all you need.

Also David, those of us using the laid up block method, ala Olson/Hoffman and others, are using flatsawn planks. Turn a flatsawn plank 90 degrees and you have a quartersawn neck piece. Hoffman for sure has mainly used solid blocks and bandsawed them in half, planed, reversed one block to oppose the other and glued up.

I've never done a scarf join. Someone shared a YouTube video of Canadian Luthier Scott Dickie doing a scarf on a bandsaw. Pretty neat process. And I think Kathy Matsushita, Amateur Luthier and English Teacher demos it on her website.

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com

[QUOTE=Bruce Dickey] [QUOTE=davidmor] I use a scarf joint simply because I don't have a band saw that is big enough to cut two necks from a large blank



it is my guess that one piece Honduran Mahogany necks will become a rare thing not too long from now [/QUOTE]



David, what size bandsaw do you have? I use a delta 14 to saw two blanks out of a laid up block. 4 inches is all you need.



Also David, those of us using the laid up block method, ala Olson/Hoffman and others, are using flatsawn planks. Turn a flatsawn plank 90 degrees and you have a quartersawn neck piece. Hoffman for sure has mainly used solid blocks and bandsawed them in half, planed, reversed one block to oppose the other and glued up.



I've never done a scarf join. Someone shared a YouTube video of Canadian Luthier Scott Dickie doing a scarf on a bandsaw. Pretty neat process. And I think Kathy Matsushita, Amateur Luthier and English Teacher demos it on her website.[/QUOTE]

I have a 10" delta shopmaster band saw.  It is really a hobby saw.  The blade tracking is poor, and the motor is weak.  It will cut the heel okay, but if I were to try and cut the entire length of a neck it would not be a pretty sight!  Fairly high on my tool list is a 14" Rikon for tasks like the, and for some light resaw work.

I haven't done a laminated neck yet, but I have some off quarter blanks that will be ripped, flipped and laminated like you mentioned.  The method Kathy Matsushita uses is a tablesaw jig that cuts the 15 degree angle.  I built one and it works very well.

Sigh, my kingdom for an edit button.

That should read "Fairly high on my tool list is a 14" Rikon for tasks like THESE, and ..."

Scarf joints aren't hard. Maybe if there isn't a threat with one here, I'll try to do a toot next week.

Jim

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Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

[QUOTE=jtkirby] Scarf joints aren't hard. Maybe if there isn't a threat with one here, I'll try to do a toot next week.

Jim

[/QUOTE]

I meant thread, of course.   

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Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

Scarph joint.

I think that a headstock cut from solid lumber is just silly.

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Expectation is the source of all misery; comparison the thief of joy.
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Don't discount the Kinkaid method, He has built many fine guitars using it and so has Russell Rose, who many hear will remember. With normal neck stock an angle of 13deg or so is achieved which is plenty. However I have always scarfed headstocks but have done my last one and now moved over to V-joints because of the pure elegance of the system.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

I'm moving towards hybrids; laminated necks (usually 2 piece+contrasting center), solid heels (because I think it looks nicer than a stacked heel) with scarfed headstocks, veneered front and back, which gives me the aesthetics I want without compromising on the strength in any way (minimal to no short grain in the headstock, veneers for extra reinforcement).

I believe in Cumpiano`s book he says he likes a scarf joint because it is much more shock resistance.This is the reason I use it.
                          James W B

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James W Bolan
Nashville Tennessee

Solid necks are prone to break, as the short grain at the headstock angle is fairly weak. Broken headstocks are a common repair.
You can cover the scarf joint line with a piece of veneer if you like- it can dress things up and also add strength.

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In Markham,Virginia

[QUOTE=Colin S]Don't discount the Kinkaid method, He has built many fine guitars using it and so has Russell Rose, who many hear will remember. With normal neck stock an angle of 13deg or so is achieved which is plenty. However I have always scarfed headstocks but have done my last one and now moved over to V-joints because of the pure elegance of the system.



Colin[/QUOTE]

Colin, do we have your method of making V joints? Do you use the same method Jonathan uses?

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

[QUOTE=WaddyT]
[QUOTE=Colin S]Don't discount the Kinkaid method, He has built many fine guitars using it and so has Russell Rose, who many hear will remember. With normal neck stock an angle of 13deg or so is achieved which is plenty. However I have always scarfed headstocks but have done my last one and now moved over to V-joints because of the pure elegance of the system.

Colin[/QUOTE]Colin, do we have your method of making V joints? Do you use the same method Jonathan uses?[/QUOTE]

I use the method detailed by Joshua, like most things that Joshua does it suits my approach to building and is elegantly simple and uses only hand tools and woodworking skills. I believe it should be in the archives somewhere.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

[QUOTE=Colin S] [QUOTE=WaddyT]

[QUOTE=Colin S]Don't discount the Kinkaid method, He has built many fine guitars using it and so has Russell Rose, who many hear will remember. With normal neck stock an angle of 13deg or so is achieved which is plenty. However I have always scarfed headstocks but have done my last one and now moved over to V-joints because of the pure elegance of the system.



Colin[/QUOTE]Colin, do we have your method of making V joints? Do you use the same method Jonathan uses?[/QUOTE]



I use the method detailed by Joshua, like most things that Joshua does it suits my approach to building and is elegantly simple and uses only hand tools and woodworking skills. I believe it should be in the archives somewhere.



Colin [/QUOTE]

It is in the Tutorial Page.  I just wondered if there was a different way that you might use. 

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

I'm not a fan of 1-piece necks for two reasons: breakage in the short grain of the headstock, and the waste of wood. They are quick in a factory setting, and the time saving there probably helps make up for the extra wood cost. Most of us aren't sweating a couple of minutes difference. I believe Martin started using the 1-piece back about 1915, when they may have had trouble getting skilled labor to cut the bridle joint they had been using. It's not an ancient tradition.

The scarf joint is plenty strong enough, particularly if you are using a modern glue, like Titebond, that has some shock resistance. It reduces the short grain in the head, too. I don't see how you could cut one accurately enough off the saw, particularly a bandsaw, but it's easy to dress up with a hand plane and scraper. I prefer the type where the joint is parallel to the back of the neck, and falls in the headstock. The other kind, where the joint is parallel to the headstock face and the joint comes out around the second or third fret seems troblesome to me. For one thing, there is less glue area. Also, back when I was doing repairs, I'd see guitars with that sort of joint that had a hump at the third fret, owing, I think, the the joint shifting. AR glues do creep.

If you're worried about strength on a scarf, or even a one-piece, a backstrap veneer that runs up the back of the neck is even stronger than a face veneer.

I've used V-joints on everything; archtops, flattops, classicals, and 12-strings. I've even used it as a repair technique when a 1-piece breaks partway up the head. The only time it ever failed me was on a Taylor 12, where the stub was too short. I thought it might not work, but it was the quickest and cheapest thing to try. I ended up making a new neck; oh well.

Laminated necks are better than 1-piece ones, as you can shift the grain alignment in the different layers a little to make the angle stronger. They use a lot of wood, though. I do prefer that method for maple necks, as you can book match them and make them more stable. Besides, the curl looks so nice... A laminated neck and heel with a V-joined head looks cool.

The stacked heel and joined headstock traditionally used on classicals was, I'm sure, a wood saving method. Wood was hard to get and expensive, and labor was relatively cheap. A proper stacked heel is as strong as a solid one, despite the prejudice against it in the steel string world.