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Well it has been about 1 ? years and about 10 finished instruments since I started building. And I figure that it is time for some evaluation. I have decided to look at every aspect of my guitar building to see how I can build better guitars. Everything from the wood I use to the kind of finish I use and everything in between.

I recently took a guitar to one of the high-end guitar shops in my area and had the owner of the store (probably one of the top luthiers in this part of the country) evaluate my instrument. He gave it a thorough going over and showed me about 10 things he felt needed to be changed. These were things that would never be noticed by the average consumer, but were very obvious to a good luthier. And after he pointed these things out I was able to see them clearly myself. Everything from setup issues, to the way I brace my tops and the way I carve my necks. He also encouraged me to make some changes which would make my guitars more appealing to the buying public.

So the good thing is I know where I need improvement. And I was told to come back when I had made a guitar with these changes. So I figure while I am working out some of these bugs I might as well go ahead and evaluate all aspects of my building.

Many thanks to those who have helped me get this far with there advice. And keep it coming. I will be looking for all your opinions on a bunch of design issues.

Josh

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Josh House

Canadian Luthier Supply
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Josh,

You and I are almost in the same position. I too have been building for about 1-1/2 years, and I too have build "about 10" instruments (completed 9, number 10 is about 60% finished, number 11 is about 30% finished, with 12 and 13 already on the drawing board).

I think it is excellent that you had the opportunity to show your work to a top-notch luthier, and then for him to give you an honest critique. This is great stuff!

So, I would ask, please, that you share these 10 points that this fellow pointed out. Cuz chances are there are quite a few others here that, like me, could really benefit from this perspective.

Best,

Michael

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Michael

Well here are the details…..

1. My bridge pins are to far away from the saddle
-My bridge pin holes are about 14-15mm from the saddle. He said they should be about 1 cm. The reason being that as the years go by as you need to lower the saddle you will quickly lose the break angle for you strings.

2. My bridge is glued on about 1mm off center.
-It is very slight but when it was pointed out I could see it. I need to be more careful.

3. The neck is slightly under set
-The result being that there is not as much saddle showing as there should be.

4. My low E string should be a little closer to the edge of the fretboard.
-He said that the low E can be closer to the edge than the high E. And that players who do a lot of thumb over would want it closer than I have it.

5. String height at the nut was a little low, especially on the low E and A strings.
-He said that the slots would wear before to long and the strings would start to buzz. Simple solution, don’t cut the slots that deep.

6. My bridge pin holes are to close to the edge of my bridge plate.
-Moving the pin holes closer to the saddle will help with this, but I should probably reposition my bridge plate slightly.

7. My finger braces on the inside of the top have a consistent height and then an abrupt scoop at the end.
-he recommended a more gradual taper to the brace.

8. The guitar is a little neck heavy. Seems to be due to a huge neck block and the Gotoh 510 machines chrome with chrome buttons.
-The guitar just didn’t balance very well. I knew the neck block was huge and I’m not sure why I did that when I built it. I have since switched to using a much smaller heck block. The 510 machines are great but they do have some weight to them especially with the metal buttons. I plan to always use the wood like buttons from now on and am looking at switching to Gotoh 510 open back machines or possibly Waverlys. I plan to weigh the different sets and see how much of a weight difference there is.

9. My volute is to far forward.
The volute on the back of the neck ends just slightly in front of the nut. It should end just before it.

10. Recommended that I possibly switch finishes
-I am currently using KTM-9 but he recommended that I look at Nitro. This is something I have been thinking about a lot even before I went for this visit. KTM is nice but it is a pain to repair and I’m wondering what will happen if I ever have to do some major finish repairs in the future. I plan to at least give Nitro a try on the guitar I am going to start building.

11. Mahogany guitar bound in Koa does not look good without a purfling strip along the sides or back.
-In an effort to save time I had decided not to do purfling on the sides or back on my Basic model, only the top. I realized after I bound the guitar that it really doesn’t look that great. There needs to be contrast between the b/s and the binding if there is not going to be a purfling strip.

12. The saddle needs to have a compensated B string
-I was able to achieve almost perfect intonation without giving my compensation to the B string. However he said that buyers expect to see a compensated B on a quality guitar. So the saddle needs to have that compensated B look.

13. On close inspection there were some visible file scratches in my saddle
-The obviously did not need to be there.

14. fretboard radius was slightly uneven.
-again need to be more careful



So there you have it guys, my flaws have been revealed. He did say that my work inside the box was very clean. And that the guitar sounded great! I just need to get these other things cleaned up before I come back.

Again these are not things that the average player would notice. This was a demo guitar I had built for a few shows and it was seen by a few hundred people, including a number of professional players. Only one of the pro players pointed out that he would like to see the Low E string closer to the edge of the fretboard. No one else seemed to see these other flaws. But they are defiantly things that should be done right if people notice them or not.

So I start construction on a new guitar tomorrow with the goal of getting these things right.

JoshJosh H38601.2937615741

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Josh House

Canadian Luthier Supply
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House Guitars - Custom Built Acoustic Instruments.
http://www.houseguitars.com

Thanks for that info. Now I know some of the things to watch out for. Now it`ll probably be the things everyone else knows that gives me fits!

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Check my oil too, if you don`t mind,,,

Heh. I have the same 'problem' with the volute on some of my earlier necks, although I think I've got it licked now. Still plenty of other stuff to work on though.

Only things I go 'meh' at are numbers 7 and 10, honestly; how you shape your finger braces is up to you, and I've seen many, many different looks in very many finely built guitars. It's all about the sound, after all. Also, re: finishes, why worry overmuch about refinish jobs? Touchups tend to be visible anyway, and if it's really that bad, there's always the strip+refinish option. Refinishing's hardly a warrantee issue, and unless you want to focus on repair and similar, I don't think that should be a huge problem. Nitro's popular because it's accepted, but I think that with people like John Greven and Mike Doolin using KTM-9, you're in good company.

Also, re: downward pressure from the bridge pins, there's always the potential for filing a small 'string ramp' in to even things out, if you don't have your pins following the saddle precisely. Besides, saddle height should be determined by neck angle/geometry (espeically easy if you do bolt on necks).

That said, sounds like you had a productive little meeting. Always good to hear the constructive criticism!

Mattia Valente38601.1553009259

I do realize that some of these things are subjective. Brace carving issues and type of finish for example.

But constructive criticism is a good thing, and I will take as much of it as I can get. I know it will help make me a better builder.

Josh

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Josh House

Canadian Luthier Supply
http://www.canadianluthiersupply.com
https://www.facebook.com/canadianluthiersupply?ref=hl
House Guitars - Custom Built Acoustic Instruments.
http://www.houseguitars.com

It sounds like you almost have it right.

but how the arch in the back ,do you have photos you can show use?   


I look at the web site ,nice looking guitars.


   ron

I'm doing the same thing Josh, I have 12 under my belt and have all the kinks out from my current model and now I want to refine the process. I'm taking this down time from HB to re-think alot of the stuff I do, I have also had the good fortune to have a friend who is not only a wonderful player but understands repairs as well, and he has been brutal at times.

Kathy Winger gave me some tips on my neck profiling and I've been working on a new mortise and tenon design that should be *alot* lighter than what I use now. It's all good stuff to hear and learn from, you can't know enough.

I also had the issue with the bridge centering, on the fanned fret I thought I had it perfect, I measured about 5 times. Checked and rechecked and it's off by about a 64th, just enough that if you play it you don't notice but you can see it if you look down the neck. I'm still looking for a way to get it right everytime, I have some ideas that I am going to play with to see how they work.

I'd be interested to see how other builders are dealing with this, it would be easy to make a jig for it but you have to deal with different fingerboard widths and you can forget it for fanned frets

I'll be posting pics as I go along, the first thing up is to make some new kerfing combining the lightness of standard spruce kerfing and the rigidness of the one CFox uses. I just have to order some bulk sets of kerfing and get to work

I've decided to go back to Nitro for a number of reasons but I'm going to be sending all my work out from now on, I've had enough messing up my shop with Lacquer (water based or not). Adam Stark does great work and I think the cost of having him do the finish is worth the effort that it takes me to do it, I'll go as fas as applying the epoxy to the instrument and getting it fully ready for him and then he will shoot and polish to my instructions.

Good Topic...

-Paul-

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-Paul-

Patriot Guitars

I question #12. If your compensation is correct without the compensated saddle, then your compensation is correct. Adjusting the saddle, and deliberately making your guitar play out of tune just to satify the prejudice of a tire kicker, is a bad choice in my opinion. Let the factories conform to player tastes, giving them what they want instead of what they need. An individual luthier (or shop, if the guitar is on consignment or wholesaled) can educate the buyer as to what factors are important in a guitar. In tune is important. A "compensated look" is not.

OTOH, if your guitar's intonation would be improved with a change to the saddle, then yes, you should do it.

Paul
If you come up with any good solution for the centering problem let us know. It is the one part of the building process that I dread the most, locating the bridge that is. If it is out more that 1/64, or 1mm you are probably going to be in trouble. It still puzzles me a bit. I know I checked it at least 4 times before I glued it on. And I always check it at least 4 times, usually more. My thinking is that it may have moved slightly when I applied clamping pressure. Or maybe I was just off by 1mm. Hmmm...I am going to keep working on this.

rlabbe
I have been examining my saddle closely and the B string is currently sitting at about the middle of the saddle. After checking the intonation again on that string I realize that it is still out just a tiny bit. Anyway I guess all I would have to do is carve away some material on the front side of the saddle in front of the B string and it would have the more common compensated look. I believe I can achieve proper intonation with or without doing this, but if it is an issue to some people I might as well take an extra 2 min and do it. It really doesn't make a difference to me what it looks like as long as it plays in tune. I do agree with your post and thanks for it.

Ron
I'm not really sure what you are asking?? Something about the arch in the back???

Josh

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Josh House

Canadian Luthier Supply
http://www.canadianluthiersupply.com
https://www.facebook.com/canadianluthiersupply?ref=hl
House Guitars - Custom Built Acoustic Instruments.
http://www.houseguitars.com

Josh,

I locate my bridges with a small piece of double sided tape on the bottom of each wing, I mean realy small 1/4" x 1/4" small. First I cut the tape, press it onto the bottom of the wings. Remove the cover to expose the other side, press my finger on it a couple of times to take that fresh stickyness away, than I locate the bridge, measuring and moving the bridge as many times as needed to get it right. When it is exact (+/-0.5mm by the eye and the ruler) I press down on the wings, than remeasure. When all has stayed put and not moved, I than drill the locating pins (3/16" dia) through the outside bridge pin holes. Now I can mark/tape off the bridge area to scrap the finish, take off the bridge, clean the underside with naptha, scrap/remove the finish and glue down the bridge. This has worked well for me.

Could do the same thing with the fret board, just using smaller locating pins of course.

Hope this helps.Rod True38602.0438078704

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Josh,
You might look at the simple jig I described last week. It does an excellent job of placing the bridge and centering it too. Blues Creek makes a fancier version that works in much the same way and that was discussed in the same thread. The down side is that you have to slot the bridge before you glue it up and that means that you have to pre-set your compensation.

The jig has a tab that sits in the saddle slot. In effect, you are placing the saddle slot and not the bridge. That may be a distinction without a difference but it does allow for oddly shaped bridges.

Rod

That is great! Thanks for sharing. I will try the double sided tape trick and I will be buying some 3/16 locating pins for sure.

Josh

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Josh House

Canadian Luthier Supply
http://www.canadianluthiersupply.com
https://www.facebook.com/canadianluthiersupply?ref=hl
House Guitars - Custom Built Acoustic Instruments.
http://www.houseguitars.com