Official Luthiers Forum!

One thing I haven't seen much discussion about on this forum is the hazards of our trade. Most assume it is a fairly safe and harmless occupation that soothes the soul. Most are aware of the hazards of using tools, the loss of a finger or other semi minor catastrophies. But, are we quietly killing ourselves by not taking preventative measures where our lungs are concerned. We all know the hazards of chemicals when spraying laquers or other finishing products but, maybe some aren't aware of the hazards of the actual wood dust. I found this link and thought it might be something all of you should take a look at. I have known several luthiers who died at a premature age due to lung problems. I'd hate to hear of someone here suffering the same problems. Check out the link and give it some thought.
Toxic Woods and Occupational Lung Disease

Thanks, Jeff.

Here's another site. I look here when my motivation to protect my lungs
needs a boost.

http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm

The Basics stuff is especially enlightening.

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now known around here as Pat Foster
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Well that artical was down right depressing. I knew there were hazzards and I have a dust collection system, and sometimes wear a mask, but after reading that, I think it's time to really take extra precautions. Especially with a big new bandsaw.
Thanks Jeff
Thanks Bill

Doug..don't be depressed by this information. I put it up mostly for the newer guys who are getting into this business. I see more and more aspiring young luthiers joining this forum and I thought they should be informed on this topic. It wasn't to deter them from building guitars, rather to educate them to protect themselves. As the old saying goes: "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cures".

Well said, Jeff!

All,
I am an Evironmental Specialist by trade. I have been in the Environmental Buisness for 25+ years now. It is true that the chemicals we all use can all be bad in specific quantities. Wood dust can be as bad or worse due to the fact that people think wood can't be bad for you. In factanymaterial that you are exposed to for a long period of time can harm you. Please be careful with any materials you use. I wear a mask or respirator when sanding anything and also when using using solvents of any sort. One of the things I see is various web sites selling respirators. They don't list diffrent sizes. People have diffrent size and shaped faces and heads. I get fit tested for respirator use annually at work. People are not aware that a respirator or paper mask that is not fitted correctly can be as bad or worse than a properly fitted respirator. There are protocols to follow when to change out cartridges, etc. I know this seems like I'm being over a little overkill here, but I have learned alot about protecting myself in 25 years and have dealt with environmental cleanups for a long time. I have never been exposed or hurt due to exposure. Please be careful when handling chemicals, sanding woods (especially exotics). If anybody would like any help with any issues on this matter I would be more than glad to get information, etc. for any of you.Be careful and stay healthy so you all can build those beautiful instruments.
Mark Laura

I'd be interested to hear about when to change filter cartridges...

Terry,
You can either use your ease of breathing through the cartridge as a guide or if you smell a hint of solvent through the carts., its time for a change.When I say ease of breathing, I mean you should feel how a new cart. feels like to breathe through. If you have to labor harder to breathe than when new, its time for a change. When you can smell a solvent through your carts. its called "Breakthrough".This is much more dangerous if you keep the carts. on when this happens because the solvent is at your mouth and nose in concentration and its worse than say getting a quick whiff without a respirator.If you are unsure how old the carts. are on your respirator, its best to change them out. A few dollars isn't worth sickness.
MarkMark Laura38660.5313078704

That's about what I've heard. I date mine. I've gotten years on one and months on another. Just depends what it's exposed to.

I have occasionally gotten whiffs of stuff, but that's usuallu due to mask loosening up ove my (light) beard

Thanks. I've taken this conversation to heart, and the weak area is that I don't have a downdraft table. I was looking at the Delta jobbie, but I have the stuff to make one from scratch.

Thanks all!

Terry, and all others interested, as with Mark, I too deal with these issues in my day job. I am an Occupational Safety Officer in the Prevention Department of our Province's Worker's Compensation Board. Here are a couple of things to know about respiratoy protection:

1) Paper masks do not work at all for vapours or fumes, they do work for dusts though. N95 Masks with two straps are what you are looking for. As Mark indicated you need to be fit tested, even for the paper ones. One issue on this is that if you have facial hair anywhere where the mask seals then you will not pass a fit test. In workplaces we enforce this requirement fairly aggressively, in your home based business or for your hobby no one is coming by but I thought I would mention this to so the importance of ensuring a good seal.

2) On cartridge respirators all cartridges do have a maximum life. The manufacturer will usually specify this but we want to see that cartridges are no older than six months. THe reason is as soon as you take the cartridge out of the plastic bag it comes in the cartridge starts it's job, filtering! You can extend their life by storing the unit (or the cartridge) in a zip lock bag. Also, I said MAXIMUM life because in some cases you can go through these cartridges in hours! Again, as Mark said, "breakthrough" will let you know when it is surely time to change out.

3) A local wood that is bad as a cumulative carcinogen is western red cedar. I can't cut this wood anymore with out wearing protection. Cumulative exposure will leave you eventually with an asthma type responce, it has happened to me and I remain allergic to nothing else (well, on occasion too many beers!)

4) I can supply a "respirator program for small business" that we distribute, to any one who wants it and e-mails me at shane@highmountaintonewood.com

Thanks for bringing this up Jeff. If Brock or Lance want some of us could do a weekly or monthy post on a topic relating to shop and exposure safety. I will do my part if there is a desire for such a thing.

Shane

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Canada

What Shane brought up here is good advice. I usually don't date mine because if we are using respirators, we toss at the end of the day or when/if breakthrough occurs. Dating is a great idea in a home shop environment. I was looking for some type of program I could send out to you all but it sounds like Shane has it. Maybe you can put on the site here for access at anytime Shane? I would be happy to help with any information I can contribute as well Shane and others whenever you need it. I think it would be a plus to have an area for saftey and hazard information.
Mark Laura

I'll verify Shane's experience with Cedar. I had a dust collector bag slip from my hands a couple summers ago and it blew everywhere when it hit the ground. I ended up with severe pnemonia. It took 2 cycles of regular antibiotics and a round of this super potent stuff that they try not to give you because it kills all your digestive enzymes and all that good stuff. I spent 3 weeks off work and in bed. I wasn't able to play sports for almost 3 months and it took a like 5 monthsto get my cardio strength back to where it started. Now I can't handle the stuff for any extended period without a mask w/ cartriges, gloves and sealed goggles. I even get a rash if my skin gets overexposed and not immediately washed.

Better to be overkill with the precations that deal with the consequences of not protecting yourself.Jason38662.9055092593

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CVT Inc.
A tour of our shop (Somewhat outdated)
My Personal eBay profile. BCWoodBug

I will send the "program" out to those that want and for everyone else, I will try to see if it is on our website and if so, I will post the link. Otherwise I will send it to Lance and he or Brock can find someway to offer to those who want it.

Also, Jason's reaction to cedar can happen to anyone and there are many oter "exotic" woods that can put you in a similiar position of extreme discomfort. Again, thanks for getting people thinking about this Jeff!

Shane

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Canada

Thank you Shane for doing a thorough follow up on the subject. I think you and others here on the forum are better qualified, than I, to give advise on the correct precautions and equipment needed to protect themselves. I do think many of the members here have experienced reactions to working with these woods and may not even realize that is what caused it. Many of the reactions are flu or allergy like symptoms, so they may just blow it off and not think much about it. However, as we see from Jasons experience, the results can be very severe. It seems that Western Red Cedar is a fairly toxic wood. I also read somewhere years ago that "Black Walnut" is fairly hazardous as well. I know from my experience working with it that the dust is very fine. I also heard that it is toxic enough to kill a horse...(Literally) if they inhale the dust. Seems the more exotic the wood, the more hazardous it can be. All Rosewoods, African Wenge and Mahogany and Western Red Cedar are some of the more common ones we might use...and they are definitely worthy of our concerns. Education and Proper protection are the key. Keep up the good work Shane.