Official Luthiers Forum!

I've just had a look at my Great-Grandfather's papers. On his wedding certificate it lists him as Journeyman Cabinet-maker. But on his death certificate it gives retired Master Cabinet-maker.

To become a Master you first had to take a recognised apprenticeship under instruction from a Master. After 5 to 7 years, at the end of your apprenticeship, you left your Master and became a Journeyman usually moving round the country honing your skills with other Masters. Eventually when you set up your own business, you could then call yourself Master.

Anyone out there that's done a 7 year apprenticeship put your hand up...... I thought not.

The work that many of you do, and that I aspire to is truly wonderful. But no matter who we are, all of our skills sit somewhere on a continuum from bodged to brilliant. I'm not sure that at any point you could claim to be a Master one who has fully mastered the craft, that would surely show a degree of arrogance that I can't believe anyone here has. How can you truly be a Master while still learning, which I'm sure I will be until they carry me out in a guitar shaped box (Mahogany of course)!

I believe the term Master craftsman is totally redundant today. I'm just happy to be a guitar builder/luthier.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Good one Colin!
Don,
This discussion is sure stirring up some ideas.
I have written a few pages in my notebook over the past few days all inspired by this thread. In fact, a few replies have echoed some of my feeling.
JBD, loved the son of a trash man story.
On a similar note, as a guitar player, I have always done the best I can with the instruments that I had. I’m no master player by any means but I found inspiration in playing some fairly mediocre guitars, most of which I made myself. My point being, don’t underestimate what goodness that someone else may experience from the instruments you call failures.
One builder’s trash just may end up another player’s treasure.

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Wade
Nashua, NH
http://www.wadefx.com

Specialties, I'm sure an M.D., General Practioner, has done minor surgery, removing growths for biopsies, removing subterannean splinters, etc. Now, you won't see this guy going into the operating room doing knee replacements, because it's out of the scope of his training.

That work is reserved for the Specialist, an Orthopaedic Surgeon. So, what really matters is what we train for. And because we learn something from a forum, a book, or another fledgling guitarmaker with more experience, does it matter? No.

So basically we're talking about compentence in the areas where we are working and completely conquering the problems related to our work.

I've inlaid pearl, but my skills pale in comparison to Craig Lavin's skill. There are just so many areas of luthiery where one can excel and become known for. Specializing is a way to Master at least part of it. And I like Colin, am just happy to be involved in it to the degree I am.

Great thread Michael Payne, thanks for putting it up for our consideration! Now can someone go back and sum up what we've learned in just a few sentences? I gotta go build a guitar.

By an over whelming margin Dedication was the consensus. After everyone answered the poll, the string seem to go toward a definition of what was a Master luthier. Like Bruce I took a lot of notes. The intention of the poll was to examen what each of us felt was the most important attribute in pursuit of the mastery of our craft. Not was a masters most important attribute. I feel that what I have learned about each of us is the fact that though some of use reach a very high standard of proficiency in the craft. (my self excluded) We all still recognize that we are and always will be students.. I had the pleasure to set down with Michael Chapdelaine the head of guitar studies at The University of New Mexico. One of the greatest finger-style player I have ever known. He told me of his studies under the great maestro Andres Segovia, who most consider the template of a master guitarist. Michael told me how even the Maestro spoke of how he learned as much from a student as he taught. So thanks be to the gods of music and wood working. "The lesson goes on forever".MichaelP38387.6150115741

I want to build nice guitars but not be a master. I got into this to give me an outlet from the stress of the day job and honestly so I'd stay home and out of the bars. I doubt if I'll ever be as succesful or talented as many of the folks here but for now, while I'm learning this craft, I'll settle for building the best worst guitars out there

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Don Atwood
Arlington, VA

I posted this a long time ago but thought it was a fitting end to this string.

http://www.cumpiano.com/Home/Articles/Articles/pedagog.htm

Well worth the read

Don, that's a good place to start...

Michael, my whole point, though veiled a bit, was that the whole process is a combination of a number of those things. In order to someday master the craft, we need to have talent, be committed, humble, be dedicated, and be persistant. All of that. We need to have a Beginner's Mind as someone mentioned. I had hoped that by looking into the minds and work of the greats, we would see all those things. It's not what we may become, but who we are now, and what we're trying to do. Mastery? I'll never achieve it, at least in my mind. But to grasp all the necessary ingredients, both in skill and experience in order to build consistantly excellent instruments, now that would be somethin'. Great poll, great discussion.

So has anyone learned anything from all this? I have...

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Thanks Michael. Glad I've got lots of experience being a student. Great post.

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Don Atwood
Arlington, VA

Oh I agree Don. In fact all of the polled attributes require the other attributes to be achieved. This is the paradox. It all is a quest and it is not the destination but the journey that makes the luthier.MichaelP38387.6560416667

You said it...

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Michael, you did it again, a golden truth falls from your lips: "It is not (arriving at) the destination, but (rather) the journey, that makes the luthier." Bravo, bravo!

To me Luthiery was a rebirth. I got into this by an accident and my love of wood and a trip to CF Martin i had to build. I built 14 my first year.
To me the journey of building that perfect guitar is the drive. I met so many nice people and love to share what I learned and to learn from others. I know we are often our own worse critics . God gave us all a talent and a challenge. It is up to you to find yours.
    After 6 years I still love it and I am just starting to learn. The skills I aquired are hard earned but the pleasure of making a nice guitar is well worth the effort.
   I have yet to build that perfect guitar and may never do that but I will keep trying. I helped some of you here early in your building careers and if I did get you hooked blame me. I hope you all have as much joy in this as I do.
If you love what you do , it isn't a job it is a hobby. I hope to be full time this year.
Thanks to all of you
John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars

Go John, joy in the journey, we can all use a dose of that, thanks for sharing.

Life is learning and learning is life.

I agree with the good wife theory, one can not exceed at anything with out the proper support, and enviroment.

it is cool that we all have so much in common.

Matt