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Howdy Gents

So I'm working on my second acoustic, and I'm considering doing a "butt" joint for the neck joint. Perhaps this is the wrong name for it (which would explain why I don't find anything when I search the forum using that term), but I mean the style where the neck "butts" right up against the body with no mortise/tenon. Anyway, the first one I made (in Robbie O'Brien's class) I did mortise and tenon/bolt-on style, which worked out well, but I just thought I'd consider trying something different this time.

So.... I'm looking for all y'alls opinions, advice, forewarnings, etc.. It seems like a pretty simple and straightforward way to go, but things aren't always what they seem!

thanks in advance!

Mike

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Mike

"The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that. It's good knowin' he's out there. The Dude. Takin' 'er easy for all us sinners. Shoosh." The Stranger

Mario has built a lot of guitars with this joint.
Taylor built a real lot of guitars with this joint.
Many people use it and like it.

Heh heh...he said...."butt"....really tho, I use that joint all the time...the old "Taylor" before they went all NT and everything...I like it for the simplicity, and with the new bolt-down f/b extension it really shines!

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http://www.presnallguitars.com

[QUOTE=L. Presnall] Heh heh...he said...."butt"....really tho, I use that joint all the time...the old "Taylor" before they went all NT and everything...I like it for the simplicity, and with the new bolt-down f/b extension it really shines![/QUOTE]

Ya, I really like the idea of the bolt-down f/b extension too. How did that go the first time for you?

Mike

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Mike

"The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that. It's good knowin' he's out there. The Dude. Takin' 'er easy for all us sinners. Shoosh." The Stranger

Any photos of the bolt down extension?
-j.

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“If God dwells inside us like some people say, I sure hope He likes enchiladas, because that's what He's getting”
-jack handy

J, I've seen photos, but now I can't seem to find where.

Maybe you already know how it works, but basically, tenons are added to the fingerboard on either side of the truss rod, and the body is mortised to accept them, with screws holding it all together. You need to have a plate under the top though to mortise into, so it's too late for me to try it on this one.

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Mike

"The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that. It's good knowin' he's out there. The Dude. Takin' 'er easy for all us sinners. Shoosh." The Stranger

Mike,

Went well, better than I expected...trick is to put just a SLIGHT angle in the neck block for the paddle...then bowl sanding takes it down just right... I think the thread with the photos is here:

http://luthiersforum.3element.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID= 2385&KW=bolt#forumTop

Larry

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http://www.presnallguitars.com

[QUOTE=L. Presnall]
...trick is to put just a SLIGHT angle in the neck block for the paddle...then bowl sanding takes it down just right...

Larry[/QUOTE]

Thanks Larry. Can you explain the angle in the neck block a little more? I'm assuming you want the end of the paddle (closest to the soundhole) to be angled slightly upwards. Is that what you mean?

Mike

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Mike

"The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that. It's good knowin' he's out there. The Dude. Takin' 'er easy for all us sinners. Shoosh." The Stranger

I use to build my classical guitars with this type of joint. (bolt on butt joint) It worked well. I've since gone to a mortise and tenion bolt on arrangement mainly because it just seems better.

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Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

Mike,
yes that's the ticket! It's not as critical as it sounds...the paddle will sand well in the dish, you just don't want to put so much angle in the block that you have a lot of sanding work to do...maybe 1 to 1 1/2 degrees at most...my paddle extends about 3" past the neck block to butt up (now you got ME doing it! ) to the transverse brace...so with just that little bit of angle, you get a "lift" out at the paddle end...then the sanding trick to get the area above the soundhole to fit tight at the f/b edges when it's bolted down...John Maye's DVD on the neck joint discusses this in detail...if you don't have his DVDs they are well worth the $$. I'm rambling, so if I don't answer your question here...I'll try again in the morning when I'm thinking straight!

Larry

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http://www.presnallguitars.com

Larry, thanks so much! I can't wait to try all that out on #3. I unfortunately have already braced and attached my top on this one. I think I'll try the BJ (Butt Joint) though.

Joe, what do you like better about the mortise and tenon?

Mike

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Mike

"The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that. It's good knowin' he's out there. The Dude. Takin' 'er easy for all us sinners. Shoosh." The Stranger

[QUOTE=SniderMike]
Joe, what do you like better about the mortise and tenon?

Mike [/QUOTE]

Mike,

The M&T joint looks more professional, it probably is no better strenght wise except in the event of a sideways blow. ouch!

The main difference is you must set the neck block accurately with the M&T. Then it is just a matter of getting the neck angle (up & down) right when you bolt the neck on. With the butt joint you have to be careful with the up/down angle and the left/right angle when you attach the neck. It takes me more time getting the butt joint right.

With the M&T I set the neck block with the neck bolted in, being careful to get the neck center line right.

To make a long story short.. oops! to late! I like the M&T better.

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Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

Joe, thank you. Those are definitely good things to consider. I think I'll have to sleep on it before making a final decision!

Mike

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Mike

"The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that. It's good knowin' he's out there. The Dude. Takin' 'er easy for all us sinners. Shoosh." The Stranger

I started with Dovetail, went to MT and now just use But jopints. I much prefer it.