Official Luthiers Forum!

Hey Guys,
ive built several flamenco guitars in the past, and yet one subject seems rather unclear to me.
flamenco guitars have an extremely low action and a rahter thin bridge.
Bill Lewis' Barbero plan as sold by LMI specifies a 5 mm "tall" bridge!!!
in this specific plan it seems that using this size of bridge is possible due to the fact that barbero arched his top 3 mm at the bridge so it adds up to an 8mm tall bridge which is pretty normal.
my question is what is YOUR prefered way of acheiving a low action, and not only a low action but also keeping the strings close to the top!
ive arched my tops, ive put negative neck angle into my necks, and ive done both combined.
now id like to know what method do you use? why are you using it? and are there any advantages/disadvantages to your method?

also,if you arch your tops on a flamenco, do you feel it affects the sound in any way?

come on...make me smarter!

thanks...
Udi.

Udi,

I remember doing quite a bit of research on this a while ago. The LMI plans that show the arch of the sides at the bridge location is very interesting. I talked with several people who build flamencos and couldn't find anyone who did it that way. Most achieve the low bridge height by having a negative neck angle. The nut end is raised between three and six millimeters. This allows you to achieve the low bridge height. I have done it both ways like you but found know real advantage to radiusing the top of the sides. Perhaps those who have more Flamenco experience could add something here.

Hey Robbie,
yep, while looking through "flamenco" posts in the OLF archive i did stumble upon your old thread.
and i too have been staying away from it.
so my next question is how much negative angle do you put into your necks? do you take into account the possible slight neck bow that might occur when the guitar is strung? and how do YOU put that angle - do you build withthe neck on the same level as the soundboard and then just pulls it a bit while gluing the back on like David Schram does? do you cut a pre-calculted angle into the joint?

thanks!
Udi.

[QUOTE=vachterm] Hey Robbie,
yep, while looking through "flamenco" posts in the OLF archive i did stumble upon your old thread.
and i too have been staying away from it.
so my next question is how much negative angle do you put into your necks? do you take into account the possible slight neck bow that might occur when the guitar is strung? and how do YOU put that angle - do you build withthe neck on the same level as the soundboard and then just pulls it a bit while gluing the back on like David Schram does? do you cut a pre-calculted angle into the joint?

thanks!
Udi.

[/QUOTE]

Udi,

I use a spanish heel on my guitars and I find that raising the neck about 3 to 4mm. works well for me. I set this neck angle when gluing the back and top on. I actually shim the body of the guitar by this amount and then pull the neck down and clamp it to the solera. ( I glue everything with the top face down on the solera ) I check the action to make sure I can get my bridge around 5mm and then shim the body by that amount necessary to get the correct neck angle.

I build flamencos (about 3 to every 7 classicals) and only deal with the neck angle. I have also tried the radiusing the top of the sides but it did not seem to add anything since the rest of Spanish construction is all about building up from the solera. My solera is dished so that the sides are flat but the center is at 4mm. I use hide glue with rub joints so I press into the solera and hold but in the end the arch come out around 2.8-3mm.

One thing that helps me to be consistent is that all of my measurements are based on a particular tension of string...even if you build in all of the parameters you are, when you string it up a high tension string will give different clearance than a medium tension. Build to the same variables each time and then when adjusting the action if you are at least basing it on a similar string and string tension, your results will be much closer. I try to eliminate as many variables as possible as it makes it more repeatable.

A classical player can be used to a guitar with a higher action such as a Ramirez and therefore is more tolerant of its action. For a Flamenco player it is all about getting the action as low as possible (to their tolerance for buzz...some accept and some not) for the way that they play.

Robbie's approach is spot on...that is the only way I know (I am sure there are others) to get a consistent angle without having a have a separate solera for flamencos.

Robbie & Shawn,
thansk guys!
that makes us three that achieve the low action the same way.

take care,
Udi.

Udi, you take care too. Sent you an email. Couldn't help but think of you over there. bd