Official Luthiers Forum!

I would like to use this thread to share advice and key learnings we have had when attending guitar shows, both as exhibitors and as attendees. As we approach some really big guitar shows I am sure many of us will be attending or exhibiting. Please keep these points in mind:

Realize that the luthiers who are exhibiting would love to talk shop with other builders BUT there is a time and place for it. If there is a lull in the crowd then take advantage of that time but if the luthier’s table or booth is getting slammed with people then wait for the “right” time.

Realize that luthiers spend THOUSANDS of dollars preparing for and getting to the show. They are there for one main purpose … to SELL guitars. It cost us, on average, about $5,000.00 per show depending on where the show is located. This includes airfare, lodging, food, car rentals, insurance, shipping guitars, show fees, business literature, etc…

The focus is not totally on making money becuase we are also there to meet cyberfriends. It is a high point for me when I can finally shake someones hand that I have met on the internet and then I can finally put a face to a name. Often times they sure don't look like what we pictured in our mind but it is always a great experience for us.

Our goal is to sell at least one guitar per show just to break even. If we don’t make a sale then the cost of the show can be a huge expense. Being a luthier is a means of livelihood and businesses fail when they don't make money It's just simple economics.

Exhibitors, learn to be vigilant and interview the people you meet. Start your conversation with “Are you a player or a builder?” You will meet a lot of builders who just want to talk shop and they can take a lot of your time away from the business at hand if you allow it. You will meet THOUSANDS of people during a show and you need to screen potential buyers from builders. I REALLY like to talk shop so please don’t take this thread the wrong way and as me being a smug and arrogant person. The intent is to help new exhibitors. I wish someone would have shared this knowledge with me before my first big show.

Consider making plans, in advance, to take a luthier or two to dinner, after the show. That would be a great opportunity to talk shop and pick their brains. It is a time where everyone can relax over good food and enjoy good conversation at a much slower pace.

OK, Paul, John H., John M, Broc, Hank, Mark Blanchard and others please put in your $.03

_________________
tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

Don't send your wife to steal another builder's candy.
Seriously though, good points. One of the struggles I have is talking shop. I love to do it. But shows like this rarely offer the time to do so. There have been a couple of times where another builder has introduced himself and we talked for a bit but then I had to be a bit rude (in my view of the events) and drop the conversation to talk to a potential customer. As Tim said, these shows are to make money, get your name out there, etc. You can't do that very well if you are chatting about binding jigs and the like. Don't get me wrong, if there is nobody at my table, I'd LOVE to chat about building.
On the flip side of that, if you are showing and you see someone come up to your table with a name tag (meaning that they too are showing) don't give them the cold shoulder just because they aren't going to buy a guitar.
Enough on that...
For you first timers: don't get your hopes up too high on making sales. I have yet to sell a guitar at a show. I've made lots of contacts and those contacts have turned into sales but never any cash in my hand at the show. The first time I did Healdsburg I was in a big depression. Tim was making sales, John How was, John Mayes was...Me, not so much. But nobody had ever heard my name before.
If you make sales, great and more power to you. I just want you to be prepared for the event that you might not. If that is the case, chin up and keep building.
All this said, I really look forward to meeting anyone that will be attending that also hangs out on this forum. It's really fun to put a face to a name.
Tim, don't you owe me dinner for something? Or is it me that owes you.

Since Jen never shows up I think dinner is on her :) Good points Paul and again I hope my words did not come across as being too blunt (as I can tend to be). I love to talk shop too, just ask Paul and John How. I kept them up half the night in Georgia last fall ;) I am still trying to get that sock out of my mouth, that one of them stuffed in there, as they were drifting off to sleep!

_________________
tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

Thanks for the tips, guys. Certainly makes sense.

So, how do you cut the "shop talk" short without being rude?

_________________
Mike

"The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that. It's good knowin' he's out there. The Dude. Takin' 'er easy for all us sinners. Shoosh." The Stranger

[QUOTE=Hesh1956] Mike tell people in advance when doing shop talk
that if anyone walks in that you will need to be able to assault them.....
[/QUOTE]

That's good advice, Hesh. I was thinking that if I casually took my shirt
off they'd probably leave too. Of course, with my huge guns, that could
attract quite the crowd too.

(I don't really have big guns)

_________________
Mike

"The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that. It's good knowin' he's out there. The Dude. Takin' 'er easy for all us sinners. Shoosh." The Stranger

Hi Hesh,

Thank you so much for sharing your experience and sage wisdom. Please keep the comments coming in. I may be old but I CAN learn new tricks.

Avoid eating food with lots of garlic or onions. Gum is taboo but breath mints are a requirement

_________________
tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

If someone wants to buy one of your show guitars and take it home with him, how do you handle payment?

[QUOTE=CarltonM] If someone wants to buy one of your show guitars and take it home with him, how do you handle payment?[/QUOTE]
Both Montreal and Healdsburg will process a credit card for you for something like 4%.

[QUOTE=CarltonM] If someone wants to buy one of your show guitars and take it home with him, how do you handle payment?[/QUOTE]
Cash works nicely too.

Hesh, I think that's pretty common practice, for just the reasons you stated.

I have a business account that allows me to accept credit cards. They offer several different methods but I use a [phone in] method that allows me to verify a card transaction in a few seconds via phone. I pay $22.00 / month for the service.

Doing business in a foreign country is a can of worms. There is a LOT of red tape and duties involved. If you try to sneak a sale in under the radar and get caught you can go to prison [there]! Therefore I will only take a deposit there and then ship the guitar back when I return home.

_________________
tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

Guys, will the venues you are at have a wireless network or provide access to a highspeed connection?   (I suspect the Hyatt Regency Montreal venue will allow you computer access). If they do, PayPal would work and I suspect it’s at a rate less than the greedy credit card companies.

I bought a guitar at ASIA this year and made payment via PayPal. The seller was able to quickly confirm that the transaction had gone through, right on the spot.

So where are the pictures of your guitars that you guys have been promising me?

Pics are a few days away from me yet.

You have to pay extra for electricity in your booth / table space, phone lines, Internet, etc... I looked into PC service, Paypal and the service I am using has lowest fees (when I got it two years ago). There may be other services less expensive now? All I need is cell reception and a manual card impriter.

LMIs rates are not out of line for Healdsburg. However some of the other shows we do don't have that service available so we had to find our own. If we were only doing HB then I would use LMIs service.

_________________
tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

Another option for payment is Paypal. Some venues have internet access and you can do it that way.

At the NAAM show I bought some wood that way. They wanted cash and I didn't have that much, but they had their laptop with wireless internet. It was very smooth.

_________________
Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com

Paypal's merchant service is pretty comparable to most of them out there
and less than their typical 3% of a transfer we usually work with. What
makes paypal's merchant service attractive isn't necessarily their rate, but
the ease of integration into websites. I used it when I was a web host.

I'm sorry for this long post but I'm not much of a writer.

Tim,

This is a great idea for a thread and I am sure that what is learned here will be of value to everyone.

Listen to what Hesh said! Thank you Hesh for sharing your professional information and experience.

At one time I was a weekend warrior traveling around the country doing Franchise Business shows. My job was in the trenches informing the clients of the products and arranging appointments for them to attend a detailed sales presentation.

A couple of times we wore buttons that said “ASK ME”. I thought it was kind of hokey but guess what people would walk up and start asking questions. It was also a conversation starter when outside the booth. I actually brought people to the booth after a conversation started with “Ask you what?” This includes a $20,000.00 sale whose contact came from this same situation while in the restroom.

Hesh is correct that success sells. If you were at a show where would you rather look... the booth with all the people or the booth with nobody and the sellers just sitting around? Keep the booth open and keep it active. If you have your give away flyer then stand out in front with a big smile and give it away. This will give you the opportunity to direct them into the booth to see the guitars. If you have a blank side all the better. Print the blank side with something to the effect of “You deserve a McKnight Guitar”. Give these out saying side up with your minimum information on the other side including the show, booth information, and of course web site. Buyers and orders will most likely come from people who enter the booth. So get them in the booth! Then give your expensive detailed brochures to the prospective buyers.

Smile and press the flesh. Selling is work and it takes focus. Be sure to smile when you meet people. Shake hands and introduce yourself to both Men and Women. If someone shows up with their spouse or loved ones shake their hands too. Shaking hands is important as it shows respect and a willingness to share ones self. Shake with a moderately firm grip. It is not a strength contest but a weak grip creates a negative environment. This may sound silly but you should shake hands with a couple of friends and get their reactions. You may find that your grip is either too strong or too weak and needs work. Take this from a person who has given hand shaking lessons. Oh yeah, don’t forget to smile!

Try to say something complementary to the client. If they ask a question that is technically say something like “sir, you really know your guitars” or “that is a great question most people don’t understand guitars that well”. If you listen and are prepared you can react in very positive manner to what a client says. The point here is to let the client know that you understand that he has knowledge and value and you have a guitar that meets his needs.

If you are talking shop and a prospective client approaches just say “business comes first”. You will find most people can relate to that thought and will not be offended.

Get people in your booth.
Smile
Press the flesh
Be Positive at all times
Never Lie
Make a positive comment about the clients
Focus

_________________
aka konacat

If you think my playing is bad you should hear me sing!
Practice breeds confidence and confidence breeds competence. Unfortunately, I'm stuck in practice.

When I used to do shows I remember The thing that got the most crowds at booths was people playing.
Of course the bigger the name,the bigger the crowd.
Jimmy Bruno played at Bennedetto's booth-you couldn't get near it!!.
I had a friend who was a very good jazz guitarist and he would meet me at the shows and play-it definately helped a lot.
Sometimes you would get some spontaneous jazz sessions going with customers.
Of course the biggest problem with these shows is that it is very hard to hear anything over all of the noise.

[QUOTE=Hesh1956] [QUOTE=CarltonM] If someone wants to buy one of your show guitars and take it home with him, how do you handle payment?[/QUOTE]

That is a great question and I was wondering about that too.

[/QUOTE]

At the Healdsburg show, LMII has a credit card service available for sellers. I think they charge about 2 or 3% or whatever the transaction costs them. I took a personal check last time, risky I guess but it cleared.

_________________
Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

[QUOTE=Hesh1956]

I don't know if this is permitted at guitar shows but if you can get an attendee to demo one of your guitars and play loud enough to be heard in the isle - great, unless the player is me..... Smoke on the water won't cut it with finger stylists.....


[/QUOTE]

At places like Healdsburg and Newport I think it's frowned upon to play in the display rooms. Both shows allot 15-30 minutes for a builder to have someone play their guitars for the public in a listening room.

At both of these shows, tables are set up for you to display your wares, you don't have a booth like at a NAMM show. All the same things that Hesh is talking about still would apply even though you have limited space compared to the bigger music trade shows.

I missed the last Newport show, but I'm glad I didn't go. I've heard from a few builders it was almost impossible to make a sale because most of the prospective buyers turned out to be amateur builders who just wanted to talk shop - most of them without any concept of "Guitar show etiquette" like Tim was talking about.

The person who taught me to build a guitar, instilled in me the value of a builder's time. If you want him to evaluate your guitar, he is happy to, but you better be ready to shell out $85 for a 1.5-2 hour honest eval. His attitude has served me well whenever I go to the various acoustic guitar shows - I like to talk shop with the guys and gals behind the tables, but will quickly excuse myself if someone else walks up to the table. I don't bug anyone if they are eating - I found this out the hard way. Hungry luthiers are grumpy luthiers. Honestly, he was very nice and asked if we could chat later, he was just starving.

Tim, Hesh and others - this is a great thread with great info. Thanks for these posts, they will serve myself and others well in the future.

_________________
John Lewis
Wannabe builder owned by 2 crazy dachshunds

Wow.. there are some great ideas in here.

I think in the immediate context of Montreal and HGF we are operating on limited time to prepare any new ideas. However I do have a few items to add that I think will make the most of your trade show experience.

Create a private "reception" for an evening. If you are staying at a nice hotel you can cater and even have a bar. Most nice hotels will make a suite available for these gatherings at a (relatively) decent price. You can go in with a small handful of builders in your relative orbit to help defray the cost. (Having other builders around also helps generate a bigger crowd at the reception). Throughout the day at the show you can give people who are interested but seem "on the bubble" a printed invitation to the reception. Regardless if they come or not, they will remember you and your invitation.

Reap an asset. Hesh and Konakat talked about pressing the flesh, smiling, etc... very wise. Also, don't be shy or forget to ask for their information. You don't need to make them feel pressured to give it to you. Offer to email them a screen saver of some of your best work, or to "send you a few pictures of a guitar I think you would really enjoy seeing". Get their name and email address. Maybe you won't make a sale at the show, but if you go home with a few new people to cultivate relationships with then you have won something very valuable.

Be enthusiastic... people's attitudes will rise or fall to the level of the dominant person in the exchange. If they see you are excited they will equally be more excited about your work. Speak from the heart and let them see the passion for what you do.

I am a huge fan of passing something of lasting visibility to a good prospect. Cup, mousepad, shirt, guitar picks, anything that keeps them staring at your brand over and over. (I am interested in the comment about the hats though....)

This is a great thread. Thanks for starting this Tim, great idea.

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com