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Interesting discussion here- at what point are we willing to take responsibility for our own safety?
The analogy between the SawStop and front-impact air bags is a good one.
Front air bags don't provide any additional protection to a person who has his seat belt properly fastened; they were devised to protect folks who refuse to belt up. Originally an option on expensive cars, they are now practically universal, add a good chunk to the cost of a car, and result in a huge repair bill (or vehicle write-off) after even a fairly minor collision. All of this positive cash flow is welcomed by the auto industry.

When you can't buy a saw without this 'safety feature' (don't put your hand on the blade, use push sticks, fix your setup if your work is binding, use a sled for crosscutting panels..duh!), and replacement costs for new 'stop cartridges' and blades is a recurring part of your shop budget, you may think differently about the (dubious) benefit it provides.

I'm not against all safety devices- I'd pay to install larger shut-off switches on my tools if they were available at a reasonable price-but that's another topic.

Cheers
John

I decided that I'm going to buy one of these cabinet saws when my finances allow it. I'm the poster-adult for Adult Attention Deficit Disorder, and things just have a way of happening with me. I've had two very close calls with my table saw, which resulted in (fortunately) only minor injury. After hearing how many table saw accidents there are in this country every year, I decided that I stand a significant risk of eventually being one of the more awful statistics. To spend $3000 to save my fingers so that I can continue to play the guitar the rest of my life is worth it. Not to mention eveything else I need my fingers for every day.
If I have to spend another $150 every year thereafter to replace a couple stupid cartridges that go off to save my fingers, so be it. I'll still be as careful as I always try to be, and hopefully if I have a momentary lapse of concentration or judgement, I'll be covered by the safety feature and not lose precious digits.
Besides the safety features of these saws, having seen one in person, I can tell you they're one of the best saws money can buy with or without the brake.

I'm just not sure how anyone can look at this product, or for that matter - any product that is designed with such amazing safety features, and see something devious or underhanded about the industry because of it. No offense, but that's twisted thinking. Are they gonna make money on selling saws with this safety devise? Absolutely. More power to them. I will be happy to hand them my money when it comes time, and I won't regret it for even a moment.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

You know Don, if they were available over here I would consider it too, even if I have a very nice cabinet saw already. In not too many years I will be showing my kids how to operate it, I think I would feel better about it if it was not so dangerous.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

Good points, Don.
I certainly respect folks who choose to add some safety for themselves and their kids in the shop.
I didn't make myself very clear (as usual).
First, saws like this in the future will not be optional and you will have no choice about whether to buy such safety devices- folks from Europe and Canada will probably see this sooner than you in the US.
Second, it's not a matter of just a few hundred dollars extra for this saw, with its better construction, etc. A good cabinet saw should last 50+ years - if you have a couple of misfires a year (wet spot on a board, staple fragment from price tag, etc) you could be looking at $500/yr in extra costs and it will add up over the saw life. If it is worth it to the user, that's fine. But people should be up front about the real cost.
(It's kinda like the $39 inkjet printer- the companies plan on making their profit on the ink cartridges- nothing devious, it's just part of the business plan.)
Third- once more of these saws get into circulation we will see how folks manage to injure themselves in spite of the sawstop feature. This was pointed out by several other people. (Do you use a jointer? Lots of lost fingers there as well.)
The power-tool-equipped shop is a dangerous place. Protecting yourself is an important part of working there. Personally, I don't want to think even for a millisecond that I will be 'all right' if I touch a moving saw blade. I keep my eyes on the blade and my hands well away. When I do something stupid, I get scared: I stop and take a break or figure out a safer way to do the job. Fortunately, I don't allow other people to use my tools so I don't have to worry about the safety of others. I would agree with Arnt's idea (I think it was his) to keep this feature a secret from novice users.
I'm all for keeping your fingers (and eyes, and ears) intact. The most dangerous table saws I've ever had to use were ones equipped with elaborate 'blade guards' (workplace-mandated) which made it impossible to use push sticks or to make narrow cuts.
Cheers
John

BTW, I just watched the 'Hot Dog Demo' at the sawstop website http://www.sawstop.com/.
The cut he's making in the demo - crosscutting a piece of plywood (across the narrow dimension) by sliding it against the rip fence, with his entire hand/forearm in the space between the fence and the blade is a cut that I consider to be dangerous. Cuts across the narrow dimension (ie crosscuts) should be done with a 'sled' or the miter guide, not the rip fence. The rip fence should never be used for cross-cutting-it's an invitation to jams and kickback. So this may be a good example of somebody doing something inherently unsafe because they're 'protected' by technology.

I even wonder if 5ms is quick enough response time to prevent serious injury - an average blade probably takes about 20ms per revolution- so that could be 10 teeth or more chewing at you. Your fingers are not so wet as the hotdog in the demo so the circuit will not be triggered until the blade gets to the 'wet part' , and your fingers will be moving a lot quicker as well, since they will likely be thrown into the blade by a kickback or a slip.
Even the cut sustained by the hotdog would make quite a mess if it were a finger- though not amputation.

BTW, the list of 'fingers saved' on the website is a little misleading- every tablesaw accident without a sawstop doesn't lead to amputation.
And, the technology at work in the saw stop is the same kind of stuff that keeps our computers and other electronic gizmos running reliably for years.....just the kind of thing we can rely on.

Let's just be careful anyway.

Cheers
John

Well said. I wonder if these guys will be able to rig a jointer too. I know several people who have had serious accidents with them. It's a quiet tool, with a way worse bite than it's bark. They frighten me, and that's probably a good thing. One can only hope that as more of the SawStop systems hit the marketplace, that the technology becomes cheaper and they brake becomes less expensive to replace. Not much you can do about the blade, but better that than my fingers. I sure wish I was less prone to accidents though...

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

You are right about the jointer.  I had a cousin, older, like my father's first cousin, who lost all of the fingers on his right hand in a jointer.  Wore a rubber hand for most of his adult life.  He didn't let it slow him down though - best pool player I ever knew.  The fortunate part was that he didn't loose his thumb.  Having that allowed him to still use the hand.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

What if you use your table saw for cutting up wienies? Somebody hasn't thought this through!

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Billy Dean Thomas
Covina, CA

"Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur."
(Many fear their reputation, few their conscience)

I love the idea of the table saw and its' stop. I have played with it and it
works as advertised. When the saws were first announced I immediately
signed up for one. Several years later just as they were coming to market I
had a chance to talk with their representatives at an IWF in Atlanta. I was
told that the saw would only work with either a 10" blade or an 8" dado set.
If the saw did not detect one or the other it would not turn on. Of course I
use the table saw with 6" blades for kerfing and for fingerboards so I asked
if this feature could be overridden when I wanted to use the 6" blades. I was
told absolutely not. Therefore, I immediately cancelled my order since the
saw could not accomodate my needs. I kept my unisaw. I wish they built in
an override!

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Sylvan
http://www.wellsguitars.com

They have an override now.

     I was wondering, I was told that the way the saw works is, wieners have capacitance, and the wiener completes a circuit and the blade retracts instantly.

    Have any of you guys seen wienies used in other electronic circuits? I've never seen a wiener capacitor in the electronic store, for instance!

    Maybe integrated circuit wieners? Are they surface mounted? Could one use a wiener in the tone circuit in an electric guitar.

    This wiener technology has me wondering! Many questions could be asked!!!

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Billy Dean Thomas
Covina, CA

"Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur."
(Many fear their reputation, few their conscience)