Official Luthiers Forum!

[QUOTE=James Orr] Rick, it should be "The same woman who I started with." I could tell you
why, or I could just tell you I'd been working on a masters in reading and
linguistics until last week when I switched to the special ed. program.[/QUOTE]

"I'm right because I'm working on a Masters" is not much of a reason. People commonly end sentences with prepositions. But it's also pretty clear that this violates a grammatical rule. As to what it >should< be, that depends on the meaning of "should."

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

I did my first with french polish (because I was familiar) and 2 & 3 with sprayed Target Ultima, which I liked a lot.

I'd love to see this thread as a POLL format, with a choice for each finish type of done in house or subbed out.......would be very informative.

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Dave
Milton, ON

I do my own finishes, nitro or shellac. Farming out is not an option, there are no professional instrument finishers who serve independent guitar makers in northern Europe that I know of. Let me know if you hear of someone, OK?!!

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

I'm anxiously waiting for our OLF brother, Joe White to set up his finishing operation and will gladly pay him to do my backs and sides with Nitro or Poly. Joe did a Nitro job for me recently when he still had the body shop and I did all the wet sanding and buffing...a nice alternative to consider. He's only a 45 minute drive away. I anticipate using FP on the tops and applying Danish oil to my necks.

Hey Joe...not to put too much pressure on you, but...when do you plan to start taking orders???

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

'In a voice eerily similar to the one coming from the demon posessed little girl in the Exorcist"    In time JJ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,In time,,,,,,,

 

Seriously, At this point, after the whirlwind of info from the "nitro vs poly" thread, I am giving some serious thought to jumping right into the polyester clears. Seems to be the favored material of the top refinishers both small and large (Rick Turner, Taylor, Anderson, Kevin Gallagher). I will most likely follow the advice of Rick Turner and Tom Anderson (thanks guys) and skip the UV cure for now. Seems the turnaround time with polyester and tried and true durability are a no brainer. Time to dig out mt Satas and get spraying!

Sigh.................I meant, my satas, as in sata spray guns.

Joe (and others), the thing I've found with the Sata guns is that they can be in need of a rebuild...packings and bushings worn out...and they still lay down the material beautifully. I've been working with the same NR-95 gun for 12 years now, and I've completely rebuilt it twice and now mainly just change the Teflon parts once a year. As expensive as these guns are, in the long run they are a bargain.

Howard, I intended it with humor. i.e., banter. It actually doesn't have
anything to do with prepositions. Who is a subject pronoun and whom is
an object pronoun. Grammatically, Rick's whom sentence was correct.
But linguistically, whom began its agonizing death before I was born and
doesn't fit into the casual register.       

Next week, on Name that Nominal . . .

And I apologize for being snippy. What I meant was that one could say that whatever is in common usage is correct, but that would mean giving up on the notion that there is a higher level of well-educated, native speaker, conservative, etc. usage which defines what is "correct." Choosing between those is a values issue.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Thanks, Howard. I appreciate that. I also completely agree with you. It
was actually my little crusade against one prof. I think the idea of
"academic language" is absolutely bogus. They would say it legitimizes
ideas, and I would say impressive thoughts stand on their own. I showed
this clip in a final presentation before fleeing the building    

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Y-8NuZZPD9E

I was just having fun too.  I do however, think that correctly spoken language is important to development.  We let too many people get by with poor English.  People who graduate from high school should have a reasonable command of language.  Don't get me wrong.  I like colloquialisms, and am guilty of heavy doses at times, but when the time comes for reasonably proper speech or writing, a high school graduate should be able to step up(preposition). 

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

[QUOTE=amcfarlen] Learn to do it yourself. There's just no satisfaction when someone comments on the finish and you have to tell them that you sublet it. [/QUOTE]

You may be cruisin' for a bruizin'with a statement like that on this forum Allen

There are a lot of "builders" here who sub out their finishes, ( and buy their necks ,,,,,,,and have their bridges made etc. ) All the "too hard " parts already done . No wonder their guitars are churned out one after the other .Can they honestly say they made their guitars ? , or do they live the lie . Apart from tuners , fretwire and bridge pins ,(although I made a set last week ),I,like loads of others, make the lot !! ( albeit very slowly ), and have that inner satisfaction when I look at the instrument , knowing ' I made this'.

I really can't see the point of buying in the parts , assembling them , then have someone finish it for them. That is , of course,unless it's a money making exercise .

Some say " I can't do the finishing because of family circumstances , or whatever ". Well ,, Learn to french polish as I do . It's a skill , and won't affect the family ( apart from the occasional cursing ) It's also the prefered finish on most high end instruments.Looks much better too, rather than that wet fish look,, or plastic appearance.I know it's an old can of worms I've opened , but I believe it needs to be said.

Ducking for cover now, knowing I've probably upset a heap of people. How to win friends and influence people !

Allen, have a look at the U-Beaut Hard shellac product made here in Australia . Can be sprayed also . It does take (about) three weeks to cure ,but because you can get away with a thinner finish has less damping.

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CRAIG LAWRENCE of AUSTRALIA
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I'm a real finish curmudgeon: there is no good finish. At the moment, I'm using French polish and Behlen's 'Rockhard' varnish. They aren't perfect, but you have to do something.

There are very good reasons for subbing out finishing, particularly if you want the hardness and wear resisitance of fresh nitro or poly. Most of us simply won't be able to lay out the cash to set up a safe and legal spray rig for those finishes. The guys who have the proper equipment have a lot of incentive to put it to constant use, and thus get very good at it. They can do it faster and cheaper, and far safer, than you can.

I have to say that the main drawbacks to the finishes I use have to do with market acceptance. There are few finishes that look as good as a well done coat of varnish or French polish. Either of them is also about as stable as anything you're going to find. The problam is that most people these days haven't a clue as to how to care for them: they seem to feel that a fine guitar 'should' be able to withstand roughly the same abuse as a carpenter's hammer. I suppose it comes of growing up with things like Ovations, that can take it. Somehow a 'better' guitar is supposed to be 'better' in every respect, including the ability to take abuse. I realize I'm 'shoveling s___ against the tide' as we used to say in the Navy. Oh well.

Dang, we used to just burn it in Nam! 

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

I use only French and while Methyl alcohol is very inexpensive, normally use Everclear or other grain alcohol as the fumes are less toxic and it can be used in drinks so is at least a little safer.

In Spain they say that the best french polishers are in Granada as most of the guitar builders send out their guitars to a couple places that do the finishing for most of the builders.

In Madrid, I have heard that almost all the builders also have one or two finishers who do all the french polishing. I heard an anecdotal story of one Madrid builder who was friends with one of those finishers and would come over in the evenings to see up close the guitars of other builders to see who was building the thinnest, who had the best craftsmanship and so on...

Boy, I got ripped a new one for admitting that I look at the guitars that Addam Stark gets from his lutherie clients to finish. Damned right I check them out, but someone suggested that it was practically immoral for me to do so. Well, for one thing, they're literally hanging in my face; for another, I'm interested in what other folks do, and yes, I have to admit I'm left puzzled by some of the choices of very highly regarded luthiers...and I'm blown away by some of what I see, too.   And no, I won't share my opinions in public.

For health reasons and environmental concerns I will stay with FP.
Tried the lacquers and ended up with leukemia. No fun.

Todd

Welcome #2 Todd!  

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

If I can't do the finish I sub out to Alex Gray at Paradox Mt Strings . He does outstanding work. Also Bartholomew finishing in Easton PA does good work. With Nitro I used to finish my own but I no longer have the luxury of time.
John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars

I use water based lacquer.

My workshop is my classroom in Highschool, so Health & Safety is #1 priority.

Still, I LIKE a buffed Matt finish so it does the job nicely!!

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My soundclick xx luthier blog xx luthier soundclick

[QUOTE=Todd] For health reasons and environmental concerns I will stay with FP.
Tried the lacquers and ended up with leukemia. No fun.

Todd[/QUOTE]

Are lacquers linked to leukemia?

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Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services

Thanks for welcoming me Hersh and Waddy.
Regretably leukemia is a difficult one to pin down. Benzine in cigarette smoke, ( I have never smoked), radiation, (I have not been exposed to any for a long time), and lacquers,(which I have been told contains benzine as well as other carcinogenic ingredients), have all been attributed to certain types of this illness and other forms of cancer. It is the lacquers that I was working with leading up to my diagnoses. Stopped me in my tracks and have not been able to get out to my shop for over a year. Still trying to make it.

On another couple notes Jose Rominillos will not be teaching another spanish guitar course. Talked with Liam and regrettably this is what they decided after the monastery sold.

Sorry for being off topic but just learning my way around forum.

FP is safe and proven. Some varnishes as well with certain precautions.

Todd