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That looks great Lance and Brock and whomever else was involved. My question is would someone new who obviously wont be selling anytime soon want to do this? I mean, i would like to join and would feel like I was helping others in contributing money "to the cause" but would someone like me bring down the site since I am a newbie?

This is great. Really gives us newbies something to aim for. Though, living on another continent might limit my selling power, then again maybe not...

But, I'm thinking that you might have problems with newbies selling guitars before they have quality under control. How are you going to keep this in check? What, if any, are the qualifications needed to be listed in the showcase? Minimum number of guitars built? Or list each builder according to how many guitars they've built?

I'm not sure rating guitar makers on how many guitars they've made is all that valid, but it seems to me that some sort of qualification is required.

Hey Guys, I think this is the going to be something that will benefit a lot of luthiers and ya'll are doing a great job putting this together.

I sort of agree with what PaulB is saying. It seems that there should be some Qualifications for listing.

But the luthier should know if his/her instrument is ready to be presented to the public and be willing to guarantee their work and craftsmanship and stand behind it with a written contract between the Luthier and the Buyer. All the Show Case does is bring the two together.

[QUOTE=D.L.Huskey] Hey Guys, I think this is the going to be something that will benefit a lot of luthiers and ya'll are doing a great job putting this together.

I sort of agree with what PaulB is saying. It seems that there should be some Qualifications for listing.

But the luthier should know if his/her instrument is ready to be presented to the public and be willing to guarantee their work and craftsmanship and stand behind it with a written contract between the Luthier and the Buyer. All the Show Case does is bring the two together.[/QUOTE]


Hey, I only sort of agree with it too. I just figured it was something that needed to be said. Whenever I hear about opportunities for newbies to sell their guitars, I immeadiatly think about William Cumpiano's article "A Pedagog's Lament". I'd hate to see the reputation of the Luthiers Showcase tarnished (guilt by association) because one of us, and my guess is it'd only take one, started selling guitars before he or she was ready. It's in everyone's best interest to see this become a huge success.

[QUOTE=PaulB] This is great. Really gives us newbies something to aim for. [/QUOTE]
I agree with this 100%

[QUOTE=PaulB] But, I'm thinking that you might have problems with newbies selling guitars before they have quality under control. How are you going to keep this in check? What, if any, are the qualifications needed to be listed in the showcase?[/QUOTE]
Yes I agree, This needed to be said. And I am confident that it has been taken into consideration by those that are working on the Show Case.


[QUOTE=PaulB] Minimum number of guitars built? Or list each builder according to how many guitars they've built?[/QUOTE]
I don't agree with this 100%. If I said I had built X number of guitars and worked on Y number of instruments, you would have no way of knowing unless I could furnish a list of references. And even then, it could still be questionable.

[QUOTE=PaulB]I'm not sure rating guitar makers on how many guitars they've made is all that valid, but it seems to me that some sort of qualification is required.[/QUOTE]
Again I agree.
Hello Paul,For some reason I didn't see this part of your posting. You addressed what I didn't agree with, but I didn't take the time to read and understand what you were saying. Bad on me, I need to pay closer attention from now on.

When I first started building guitars there was someone helping me with them. After we had built about 2 or maybe 3 guitars he wanted to sell them for a fairly high price.
He had the attitude that no one that plays an instrument would know anything about the construction process and would buy them anyway.

I knew that the instruments was not up to par. They were pretty enough but there construction issues I wasn't confident with. I settled this by asking what kind of guarantee was going to given on these guitars. He said "We can't guarantee a guitar, We don't know what somebody might do to it, or it might crack or something.

My answer was, If I only wanted to sell 1 guitar that would be the quickest way to do it. All you have to do is flake one person, and you might as well go back to making do-dads.

Needless to say I now build by myself.

I can only speak for myself, but as I had said in an earlier posting, I am fairly new to building. No way would I do anything that would hurt the intregrity of myself or the Show Case Project. It is too important to to many luthiers.

When I am ready to present one of my guitars to someone it will be after I have "Paid My Dues" and have the confidence to do so.

You are correct, it will only take 1 to spoil it for everyone.

I hope you didn't take my remarks the wrong way as I didn't intend it to be taken that way.

Daniel.

Congratulations, Brock & Lance. What a great idea! Even though I don't plan to participate, it will be a great place for wannabes such as myself to visit and get inspiration from the alpha builders. Best wishes on your venture and good luck to the participants.

_________________
JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

I give a lifetime limited warentee to the original owner of my guitars against any defects in workmanship.

If a bridge pops off, I fix it for free.

I.M.H.O.it is a no brainer to stand behind your work.

Matt

[QUOTE=FrankC] That looks great Lance and Brock and whomever else was involved. My question is would someone new who obviously wont be selling anytime soon want to do this? I mean, i would like to join and would feel like I was helping others in contributing money "to the cause" but would someone like me bring down the site since I am a newbie?[/QUOTE]

Due to my moving situation I will not be in a position to offer guitars for another year, but I think as Frank does I would like to pay now to help get this off the ground, but start my account later.
Can this be accommodated?
Great!! concept that I think will be a huge success.
Thanks you guys.

Frank - Keith, Don -
yes - you can join anytime you like and start your subscription when your ready, as Brock mentioned, the sooner we get substantial cash flow, the quicker we can advertise MORE and in more places .

Thanks
Lance

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

This is a very exciting thing! I want to thank everyone that as worked to make it happen.

I do have a question though. The quality and workmanship of my guitars is really starting to look good. However I have not yet made one that I would call perfect. While they may sound great they still have some very small visual flaws, like a tiny binding gap next to the neck heel, or a very slight inconsistency in the width of a side. So my question is, will there be any room for a guitar that is slightly imperfect? A way of letting them know its just a little less than the best. I of course will NOT be asking high prices for them, just enough to cover all my costs. Also, I would not even think of trying to hype or push my instruments as something they are not.

Just don’t want to sign up and not even benefit.

Colby - Brock put it best,

"I think as long as you set expectations appropriately that is fine.

For this to work universally, I think we need guitars from all price points.... I would just keep the economics in check."

All price points should reflect all the different build points that the many Luthiers are at.

Lance

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

Hi guys, I'm in for sure! Especially at the 50% off intro! Wow! Just another reason why I love this forum...I'm in the beginning stages of website development, product shots, and the like, and this thing of yours will be the (whatever that french phrase is for "icing on the cake" or something to that effect)! I'm in the same boat as alot of you guys...I'm getting good, but I'm not a $4000 man yet and I still struggle with the question of why a person would hire me instead of getting a 200 or 300 model Taylor...maybe my impish grin, or boyish good looks and charm?    No, I thought not, but alas, I babble...Lance and Brock..thanks for this great work, and I'll be in touch, checkbook in hand!

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http://www.presnallguitars.com

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

Have you proposed this venture on the other forums yet? I would think that you'll get a good response. Hopefully the administrators won't be offended.

_________________
JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

No- just here - We plan to advertise in several magazines as well as the other popular guitar forums --

Thanks

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

[QUOTE=D.L.Huskey] [QUOTE=PaulB] This is great. Really gives us newbies something to aim for. [/QUOTE]
I agree with this 100%

[QUOTE=PaulB] But, I'm thinking that you might have problems with newbies selling guitars before they have quality under control. How are you going to keep this in check? What, if any, are the qualifications needed to be listed in the showcase?[/QUOTE]
Yes I agree, This needed to be said. And I am confident that it has been taken into consideration by those that are working on the Show Case.


[QUOTE=PaulB] Minimum number of guitars built? Or list each builder according to how many guitars they've built?[/QUOTE]
I don't agree with this 100%. If I said I had built X number of guitars and worked on Y number of instruments, you would have no way of knowing unless I could furnish a list of references. And even then, it could still be questionable.

[QUOTE=PaulB]I'm not sure rating guitar makers on how many guitars they've made is all that valid, but it seems to me that some sort of qualification is required.[/QUOTE]
Again I agree.
Hello Paul,For some reason I didn't see this part of your posting. You addressed what I didn't agree with, but I didn't take the time to read and understand what you were saying. Bad on me, I need to pay closer attention from now on.

When I first started building guitars there was someone helping me with them. After we had built about 2 or maybe 3 guitars he wanted to sell them for a fairly high price.
He had the attitude that no one that plays an instrument would know anything about the construction process and would buy them anyway.

I knew that the instruments was not up to par. They were pretty enough but there construction issues I wasn't confident with. I settled this by asking what kind of guarantee was going to given on these guitars. He said "We can't guarantee a guitar, We don't know what somebody might do to it, or it might crack or something.

My answer was, If I only wanted to sell 1 guitar that would be the quickest way to do it. All you have to do is flake one person, and you might as well go back to making do-dads.

Needless to say I now build by myself.

I can only speak for myself, but as I had said in an earlier posting, I am fairly new to building. No way would I do anything that would hurt the intregrity of myself or the Show Case Project. It is too important to to many luthiers.

When I am ready to present one of my guitars to someone it will be after I have "Paid My Dues" and have the confidence to do so.

You are correct, it will only take 1 to spoil it for everyone.

I hope you didn't take my remarks the wrong way as I didn't intend it to be taken that way.

Daniel.[/QUOTE]

I don't think it is the intention or responsibility of such a showcase to imply the quality of or warrantee members work. I think the market will wash out those that can't cut it

That said I do believe that the individual should look real hard at the way they preset there product. A relative newbie like my self to the (only 25 sold and most of them to people I know very well) should not present their work as world class work, and keep their prices comparable to the quality of their work. Don’t under-sell yourself but make no false or misleading clams to your experience, skills or quality and you work will either make or break your effort.

It is and should be solely the responsibility of the luthier to warrantee their work. If a luthier is not repaired to warrantee their work and stand behind the warrantee for goodness sake they should not even try.
But there is a place in the market for $1000 hand crafted guitars and $4000 plus guitars. I know this from experience.

If your nervous about jumping in well that is to be expected. If your scared about living up to a warrantee, meeting deliveries, or routinely producing a quality, clean, and structurally sound product, then your not.
MichaelP38455.5374421296

Lance & Brock,

Very nice job. Brock, check your email.

_________________
Jimmy Caldwell
http://www.caldwellguitars.com

[QUOTE=L. Presnall] I still struggle with the question of why a person would hire me instead of getting a 200 or 300 model Taylor [/QUOTE]

'Cause YOU made it, not a corporation. They can call you, they can e-mail you, they can arrange for custom features, they can stop by your shop and pick up their new guitar if they just can't wait for delivery, and, if the instrument falls apart, they can sue YOU, not a corporation! Okay, forget that last part. My point is that a hand-built guitar, made by one person, is something special at ANY price-point. If you're a "beginner," but you feel confident in the solidity of your workmanship, just offer an attractive price and a solid "repair-or-replace" warranty and you're golden! If you haven't built any instruments that have stood the test of time in the hands of competent musicians, then maybe you should wait 'til you do. There will be buyers (and, I suspect, the Showcase, too) when you're ready!

Carlton

If there is one thing that stands above the rest that makes a person buy a hand built instead of a factory guitar is the friendship that is formed with the builder before during and after the guitar is built. That is at least my experience. Although I'm sure Bob Taylor is a great guy - he simply cannot give the same amount of attention to his clients as we can. Some people just really like the journey.

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

How long does the special deal last?

I'm still trying to decide if mine are good enough to sign up for it. Just need a little time to make the decision.

After all, it is either advertising or zoot, gawd life is full of tough decisions.

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Dave Rector
Rector Guitars

Dear Brock and Lance,

I think the idea for the site is great and long overdue. I also like the fact that it will be more than a "catalog". It seems to me that since buying a custom piece of work is so personal you have to make the "Maker" personal too. You appear to have accomplished that. I think the site will be a hit.

That having been said, I looked at your marketing plans but I see nothing geared toward the web itself. Although I have yet to produce guitar #1, one of the things I do have some experience with is web marketing (no, I don't sell it). I work for a company that does a lot of web sales. I am currently working on a quote for Halliburton for about $100K. They found us on the web.

If you are interested in where to start, please send me either an email or a private a message. There is a lot that can be done for a reasonable cost to promote the site and climb in the rankings. If, on the other hand, you have a web marketing campaign planned in addition to the other marketing mentioned, kudos!

Regards, Steve Brown (sfbrown_1@msn.com)

Sorry I have been away for a couple of days. I snagged a computer at a public library... so I can check in.

Yes, we are going to do online advertising. The 13th fret, several magazines have online newsletters that we will advertise in, Acoustic Player Magazine, Harmony Central (probably) and a few others.

Additionally we will most likely by pay-per-click ad words for the major search engines via the GOOGLE and Overture networks.

If you have other ideas I would be interested in them.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Regarding this issue of branding, quality, warrantee, etc. I would do a little soul searching.

I think if you are proud enough to put your name on your guitars then you can probably find a market. However I wouldn't advertise them as beef tenderloin when you are selling all beef hot dogs. That is going to come back to bite you.

If they are not cosmetically perfect then say that.

Mario openly admits that his guitars are not always cosmetically perfect but he has people in line to buy them.

I think the key element is to make sure you are setting expectations correctly.

So... with that said.... why would someone buy from a beginning luthier. I think that they probably want to get a good guitar for less than market price, meet you and develop a bond, and be a part of the process. I think that an alternative to the "factory" guitars is appealing to a class of people.

But I would be very very careful to make sure you are not overhyping your product. No one wants to damage their reputation.

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

How long does the special deal last?

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Dave Rector
Rector Guitars

Until the end of May.

You won't have to have your content ready then though. The site will be launched by the end of the summer.

:-)

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com