Official Luthiers Forum!

I read on a link Frank Ford (frets.com) has on his hide glue info page that fish glue is more hygroscopic than hide glue, it is very good for a while but is likely to breakdown more quickly in high humidity resulting in joint failure.

Now if that happened me I reckon I would! probably pee on the glue

Cheers

Kim

Tracy & David,

Does that Old Brown Glue dry 'brown' or clear? And what about fish glue, what does it look like dry? One of the nice characteristics of HHG & LMI glue is that they are clear when dry.

CrowDuck

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Chris Nielsen
Soquel, CA.

Tracy, isn't 20$ a little expensive for 16 oz of glue ?

Serge

HERE is that link I mentioned with the comments about fish glue, I think you will find it if you scroll down to about the 4th question.

I don't know too much about this guy or the glue for that matter, but considering the amount of trust that one puts in an adhesive to hold their pride and joy together for the long term, I think the comments are worth consideration.

Cheers

Kim

I agree with you Kim, i'll stay with my Lee Valley HHG untill i'm done with it and will probably look for 192 kind in the next batch.

Serge

What are most of you using for a gram weight?

Robbie, i think it's more a matter of gel time or time frame to work with, the one i have is 260g and is quicker to gel so less time to clamp.

Serge

I've heard concerns about fish glue's moisture resistance, but never once seen or heard of any test or experiences to support it. I'm hoping to have finished some serious glue experiments by this summer that will provide a few more answers.

While this is clearly not scientific, I did find a strip of ebony/boxwood laminate in my washing machine the other day that I had used fish glue on. It had to have gone through at least 3 or 4 warm/cold cycles since washing the pants that it would have been left in the pocket of. For the heck of it I threw it in the dryer with the current load, and even though it was cross-grained laminate the edges were smoothe with no signs of movement. No stresses of course (though it wasn't the gentle cycle either<g>), but still interesting.

Fish glue goes back much longer than many realize. I have heard theories that it was used in Stradivari's shop, and it certainly has been used in bowmaking including the Tourte family. For some reason whenever I bring people seem to look very hard for a reason not to like it. The only people who seem to love it are the ones who have actually used it.

In the years I've used it I've never seen any evidence of humidity failure. I've heard it from a few who heard it from someone who read it somewhere (probably written by someone who heard it from someone else....). If I start building boats with it I may ad some alum or expose it to formaldehyde fumes. Until then it seems fine for me. I will more than welcome someone to prove me wrong, but just not with quotes.

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Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

i think the consensus on HHG is 192g or even a bit less for more time to work

Serge

Ask Matt Gage about Fish Glue...

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Guys, I'm not sure about how clear the Old brown glue dries. Since I only used it on a bridge and FBE. It looks to be exactly as HHG without urea, except with the longer open time, and just a little warm up to get it soft. $20 a bottle is not bad considering it will live in your fridge for a year or more without going bad.

As for the fish glue, I'll be trying it soon on my next instruments, so I'll let you all know how it turns out. I'll be doing a bouzouki soon and will use fish glue exclusively.
Tracy

[QUOTE=jwsamuel] I have two question:

1. Who was the first person to try adding urine to hide glue?

2.How did he or she get the idea to try it?

I mean, who would think to themselves...."Hey, this glue works pretty
good. I wonder what would happen if I pee in it?"


Jim[/QUOTE]

Maybe he just wanted some sterile water.

Perhaps he was building for a client he didn't like...

I am sure there are lots of reasons for this.

:-)

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Lest we forget, urine and hides aren't exactly strange bedfellows (c.f: tanning hides).

For someone with the time and wherewithal, here's what enquiring guitarmakers want to know: Stick bridge-sized pieces of hardwood cross-grain onto larger pieces of softwood, using hide, fish, and PVA glues. Anchor the softwood and put 160 lbs. of pull on the hardwood as if it were a bridge. Put them in a closed, steamed environment and gradually raise the temperature. Record the temperature at which the hardwood pulls off, and whether it popped off, began by creeping, or began by lifting. Then tell us and accept our gratitude for making a great contribution to lutherie!

By the way, the dictionary I have handy defines urea as, "a substance found in urine, used in plastics". Guess I'll be taking the good silverware on picnics from now on!

[QUOTE=jwsamuel] I have two question:
1. Who was the first person to try adding urine to hide glue?
2.How did he or she get the idea to try it?
I mean, who would think to themselves...."Hey, this glue works pretty
good. I wonder what would happen if I pee in it?"
Jim[/QUOTE]

Funny! Maybe it was an accident: "Dang, peed in my HHG again. Well, no-one saw me...!"

Regarding gram weight, I believe that some classical builders actually prefer the higher gram weight ie 260 for its shorter open/setting time for certain operations. When glueing the top to ribs using individual kerf pieces called tentellones(sp?) they just apply some HHG to the pieces and hold them in place for a couple of seconds with a fingertip or chisel end, no clamping at all. By the time you've glued in 5 or 10, you can go back to the 1st and starting clearing the squeezeout that will have already gelling. It's good for glueing in little support braces on the ribs too.

CrowDuck

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Chris Nielsen
Soquel, CA.

must have been another drunken luthier from Quebec