Official Luthiers Forum!

[QUOTE=Serge Poirier] i'm wondering if it is possible to spray varathane over shellac?[/QUOTE]
I'd say don't do it. It's most likely compatible, but if you mess up, or just don't like, the Varathane, it'll be much more difficult to remove or fix than shellac. If you do a less than perfect job with shellac, you can go back and make it beautiful five years from now when you've mastered French Polishing!

Thanks Carlton, i had the same good advice from Alain over the phone! Great minds think alike!

Serge, I have a couple questions before I give an opinion.

First is there any chance that you did something to rasid the grain in the rough areas?

Second if the answer to the first is NO then I ould say you either you were not recharging the muneca offen enough. You should see the alcohol could appear and dis appear about 2"-4" behind the pad if it is not appearing at all then you are putting the shellac on with too little solvent. if it is longer than 4" and remains longer than a second, the you are useing too much solvent.

Read the Milburn Tutorial it is a very traditional process and is very accurate.


Fianally sprit off after every 2 sessions min. I do after every session. It sould take 8-12 sessions to build the film to final depth. and 4-6 glazing sessions to get a real high gloss.

As far as oils are consearned use only virgin walnut or virgin olive

Michael...I seem to remember that you recently have gone to using Bulls Eye French Polish. Would it be possible to list the steps, schedule and method you use in using this product...or do you just follow the Zinsser instructions? I'm planning to use this on the top and neck (at least) once my current build is ready. TIA

_________________
JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

Actually JJ, I have not used the Bulls Eye FP in a bottle since they finalised the the formula early last year. I have and still do use the Bulls Eye 100% wax free Seal Coat, not to be confused with the Sanding Sealer which is not wax free. I use Seal Coat as my shellac for French polishing if going for a vintage look. (orangeish amber color it is a 50% blonde 50% amber mix)

The reason I don't use the Bulls Eye French polish in a bottle is the the oil is pre added and I prefer to have control over what oil and how much I use in each load.

Here is my schedule in a nut shell.

Day One:
Seal all bindings and purflings with 3# cut (if using Seal Coat this is can strength) allow to cure over night. load the inner pad moderately heavy with 3# cut of shellac. place in the outer pad. Tighten the muneca till shellac appears on the outer pad. then seal the muneca in a air tight bag or container over night.

Day Two:
lightly load muneca with 2# cut of shellac (cut Bulls Eye Seal coat by on sixth with alcohol) 6 eye droppers of alcohol and 2 eye dropper's of virgin walnut oil or extra virgin olive oil. Blot the muneca to the proper external load. (see Milburn Tuttorial) Body the guitar twice (wait 15 min between body sessions. Spirit off after 10-15min on the second session. body 2 more sessions spirit off between each. !!!! Keep the muneca properly loaded and replace outer pad as needed!!!

Day Three:
Spirit off lightly. body 4-6 sessions spiriting off between each. !!!! Keep the muneca properly loaded and replace outer pad as needed!!! Allow to cure 30 min. using 2 drops of 1# cut, 3 drops of alcohol and 1 drop of oil glaze 6-12 sessions.

If done with proper loads and technique no leveling will be required because the spiriting off between session has leveled the film as you bodied and the glazing should polish the film to a relative high gloss.

If I want a higher gloss I wait one day min and buff out

This is a simplified schedule but covers the basics. for detailed procedures to body, spirit off or glaze check the Milburn tutorial in the resource page.

MichaelP38916.4561111111

Michael,

Sorry to interject here, but I want to mention a couple of things so the new guys don't get confused.

The Bullseye Sealcoat IS the sanding sealer--says so right on the can. Sealcoat is also a 2-pound cut, not 3lb. (small print to the left of the front label). The waxed Bullseye Shellac is a 3lb. cut (not to be confused with their dedicated FP product--different shaped can).

Thanks for your input Michael, sad you were gone while i wrote this, the guitar is now finished but with something else than shellac,i did not have the patience to work with it any longer and it was only an already mixed bottle of it purchased at Lee Valley's. To answer your question, no, i did not raise the grain, by feel, the whole guitar was very smooth to the touch, very slippery everywhere and that will probably answer no 2 as well, i did not have any muneca nor alcohol, just a clean cotton rag to wipe it on in circular motions. I saved Milburn's tutorial for future refs as well as your posts, i plan on seriously giving it a try for no 3 now that no 2 is completed...but thanks anyway Michael!

Regards

Serge

The also make a product called "Sanding Sealer" that is not wax free. I comes in a yellow can Also they make a finishing shellac also not wax free.

[QUOTE=MichaelP] The also make a product called "Sanding Sealer" that is not wax free. I comes in a yellow can Also they make a finishing shellac also not wax free.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, Zinsser have made their whole product line kind of confusing, especially for those who aren't quite sure what they need.

you know I have use the Seal Coat for several years now I could have sworn it was a 3# cut I have been cutting it by a sixth to get the same viscosity I get when I mix my own 2# cut. Now I wonder if the fact it is canned makes it more vicious as apposed to the cut being heaver on the shellac side I guess I had better read the can again

[QUOTE=MichaelP] Now I wonder if the fact it is canned makes it more vicious as apposed to the cut being heaver on the shellac side [/QUOTE]
Maybe it has something to do with their proprietary process that gives their product a 3-year shelf life?