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So......

Still wondering if there is some sort of pattern or specific spacing for the supports, tape or otherwise.

Anyone.....Anyone? Bueller.....Bueller.....Bueller?

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Cool, thanks Hesh.

So, did you get the back and top glued on today

Your so fast.

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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

Hesh, great info, I just wanted you to know that I am for the first time ever using the bias tape on all I have going right now, thanks for sharing.

Mike

Thanks for the tutorial Hesh, great informative thread BTW, THANKS FOLKS, I used very thin wood as side braces, don't know yet if i will switch to this approach, i might go to very thin veneers i have here next time but i want to say that i appreciate this.

Serge

Hesh, here's a couple of pictures of a guitar of mine , a 1963 Martin 00-18, with tape side supports. As you can see this one is more than 40 years old and the tapes (not shellaced) are still perfect.

Incidentally this is my favourite Martin, I think it sounds better than my three 1930s Martins. This one is of course mahogany and has an Adi top, BRW fingerboard and bridge. The top braces are just plain old tapered.





Colin

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Hesh, I don't know what adhesive was used to stick them on, probably HHG, but they definitely do not have any shellac or anything else put on them afterwards, and they are still well adhered.

It just shows though that, as in all other aspects of luthiery, nothing is new, just gets recycled every now and then.

This is my favourite blues guitar. (Though I might build one of John How's 'Stella' guitars!)

ColinColin S39021.4986574074

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

That Martin is an example of twill weave tape. It has a 'selvedge' edge: it won't fray. I suspect it's linen, although it could have been cotton, and stuck on with hide glue. I've seen Martins with tape like that as early as 1918 with no side cracks and the tapes down tight.

The nylon twill tape I tested was not all that much heavier than the cotton-poly bias tape, it was just a lot stronger and less stretchy material, and didn't glue worth a hoot.

The self adhesive stuff Martin used in the 70s was, let's say, less than wonderful. I used to repair a side crack or two on one performer's Martin every time he got back from a tour. The adhesive on the tapes had dried out, and they were just flapping loose, with the stickum picking up dust in the process. After about three or four rounds of fooling with it I removed all the existing tapes, scraped the insides as clean as I could, and put in proper cloth tapes. It took a while, working through the soundhole, but he stopped coming back with side cracks. The steady income was nice, but not having to mess with that stupid problem was nicer.

BTW, I think it's important to run the tape under the liners. Not only does it anchor the tape ends, but it doesn't leave you with a weak eare right at the edge of the liners, where it's really hard to fix a crack.

I shellac after I've put in the liners.

I've been using wood coffee stir sticks for my side supports.

Thanks for the good tutorial, my friend.

I will definitely try that, maybe even on no.3... It seems to be a quick and painless operation that can possibly save you a cracked side, or at the very least, a 'contained' crack...

Good job Hesh!

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It appears the the word "selvedged" has disappeared from the vocabulary of the fabric store ladies. When I went in looking for the bias tape, I used the word selvedge and they looked at me like I suddenly started speaking Urdu. When I described what I was looking for in more detail, the instantly knew I wanted bias tape. The bias tape I found was a cotton/poly blend.

A 'selvedged' edge on cloth is what you get off the loom along the sides. The weft threads hold the last warp thread in, and it won't unravel. That twill weave tape inside the Martin was woven as a narrow strip, so it has selvedged edges. Bias tape is made to fold over and sew onto cut edges of cloth, to keep them from unraveling, so it's a sort of artificial selvedge. It's cut on the bias so it can go around curves without wrinkling. When you get it the bias tape is folded under so there are no loose exposed threads.