Official Luthiers Forum!

Thanks for speaking up, Lance and Brock. Your words are well spoken.

_________________
Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

I did respond out of anger towards Howard and am sorry that I did. I
considered keeping my project to myself and quit visiting, but didn't want
to miss out on what some of my favorites here are doing or saying, and I
didn't want to be the guy who never shares what he's doing.

We'd have to share our work and comment on our peers' after every
assignment. There were four or five of us so it was pretty natural. It
turned out to be a school in communication where I learned how to ask
what the other person had been thinking about via questions like, "Tell
me about the colors?"

There are four major approaches to art. Formal, mimetic, idealistic, and
realist. I'm usually a mix of formalist and idealistic, meaning I have a very
structured aesthetic but am trying to communicate something through
the work.

There are different approaches the building guitars. Someone may
coming from a different approach. If it's not like ours, or we're not sure
what they're doing, it'd be much more constructive to ask what they're
considering before assuming (or assuming they're not considering).

Very well said all!

Respect. I don't care if you've got 1000 guitars under your belt, or if you're contemplating building your first... If you can't act cordialy and kindly towards others, you're nothing to me. Sure, you might know enough stuff to fill and encyclopedia and I'll take all the knowledge from you that I can, but in the end of the day, I'll never respect you because you're arrogant.

That's how I see it...

I've said it before and I'll say it again. It's just like my good moma says, 'If you don't have anything nice to say, just keep silent'.

Peace

_________________
I'd like to be able to prove, just for once, that money wouldn't make me happy...

The beauty of the internet is that it's the great equalizer. That can also be its biggest flaw...

Hope Mario and anyone else who has packed their bags decides to come back at some point.

Just to clear the air a bit...

I didn't leave here in a huff, grabbing my toys and leaving the playground. I was asked/suggested that I leave. Every few weeks/months, I'll step on someone's thin-skinned toes, and then receive a handful of private messages and/or e-mail telling me that I'm everything from an a-hole to just plain mean. Most of you have posted in this thread already; you know who you are. as Tweety said: "Ooh, watt a hypotwit"

I'm no longer posting, not because of a argument; I love a good debate! Al and I have been at it for what, at least 7 years! And we still get along. We've promised to go out to dinner if we ever meet in person. Betcha the wait staff will wonder if we're old friends or old enemies, because we may shake hands one minute and bitterly argue the next <bg>

Nope, I will no longer post because I'm tired of the back room antics here, the PM's, the e-mails, then the same folks are out here holding hands, singing Kumbaya.... I have never participated on a forum, and I am on a LOT of forums, where people do so much back room bickering.

And for some odd reason, I couldn't even log-in this evening under the user name and password that has served me since day one. I had to create a new account. What's up with that? Hope it's just a mistake or software glitch, not a means to keep me from clearing the aire that surrounds me here? Or maybe the stupid private message thing is so full of hate-mail it crashed my account!

As I said, I will still read the OLF; there are some good sponsors here who'm I have purchased much stuff from, and I wish to stay up on who's offering what. I'm sure the forum owners will agree to let me lurk, for the sponsor's sake, right?

I'm not thin-skinned; I'm not mean; I'm not arrogant. I Am quit thick-skinned ad ca take a lot. I care deeply for those who wish to actually learn to further their luthin' skills. I am quite shy and meek, and turn beat red when someone talks nice about me. Everyone that -knows- me knows I am as far from arrogant as possible.

I simply post short, to the point answers. I'm not into the group-hug, support group atmosphere that -is- the OLF, but I never let it bother me, nor did I ever let it stop me from giving a straight up answer when asked, even if that answer was less than supportive. That, in the end, is too 'mean' for some members. There was plenty t do before the OLF, and there is sill plenty to do today. There have always been other forums, and I've always been active in those, too. I won't dissapear off the face of the www.... <bg>

Hope that clears the air a bit.

Mario

Sorry you have taken this stand Mario, you insight, and experience will be sadly missed. I for one have gained a lot from your participation. If I ever had a gripe with you, it was just your shortness with anyone who's opinion differed from your own.

This is a sad day for the OLF, I do hope that you and the moderators will reconsider and come to some agreement. I for one do not use the PM facility very much, generally, I figure that if you have something to say, it better said openly as I have done hear.

If it is inappropriate to do that, my be it is just inappropriate.

Cheers

Kim

I can't help it guys, but I'm terribly pissed that it has come to this. The quality and reputation of this forum just took a terrible hit because of an attitude that political correctness trumps truth and candor. We can expect that it will be difficult to attract more experienced teacher, builder, mentor-types if we have a reputation of being whiny, thin-skinned, tantrum throwing rookies just because we can't stand up to criticism and disapproval. Sometimes it just better to hold your nose and swallow your medicine when someone is trying to help.

That's the way I see it...I'll remain a member in good standing but I plan to spend more time learning on other forums again.

I don't believe that Lance would do it but if it is true that Mario's username and password were suspended I'll be gone as well!

_________________
JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

I totally enjoy the atmosphere in the OLF. But I also have lurked enough to know what to expect from the likes of Mario.    I feel that his input is very valuable if not always quite PC or has the friendliest tone. I think most that have been around here know that there are rarely personal attacks. If we loose the input of anyone, we may be missing "pearls of wisdom" others may not know to add. Don't we all have that sharp-tounged relative that we just learn to deal with and love just the same? This is a great place with great people. I hope we can co-exist with respect but certainly honesty.

Lance and Brock would not have banned you or deleted your account. Even without knowing for sure I have seen how these guys operate in the past and the only account that I know of that was deleted was at the request of the account holder.

You're pretty good at flipping the table, but I honestly tried my user name(Mario) and password 4-5 times. I also tried the various passwords(3 in all, so it's not that complicated) that I use on the various forums. No go. Now, to be fair, I am on a new computer as of a few weeks back, so maybe when I set this one up, we changed the password, but I don't recall. Could simply be an unfortunate fluke, also, that the system dropped me today of all days. The AG form drops me all the time(cookie issue?), so i know it happens. I used "Ousted" as I was a tad frustrated, if you can understand. It's also a shot at a touch of humour; a bit of sarcasm. A bit of the ironic. I'm sure Howard would "get" it...<bg>

for the record, Lance nor Brock have ever written me, except for a bit of advice once, methinks.

Look at y'all! Every few months, there's a "come-to-Jesus,-sit-down-lets'-talk-about-our -problems" thread. You all try to be too nice. S&^t happens. People disagree. Folks leave. Others come in to replace them. Get over it. Show me a couple or family that's never fought, and I'll show you a dysfunctional bunch And leave the damned PM button be. THAT is the reason I'm gone, and likely why others left. Most of us that do this for a living work alone; we don't need the lunch room/water cooler back stabbing that is commonplace at the office/workplace. We I go to a forum or read my mail, it's always when I'm taking a break fro work. This(the forums) is our water cooler.

sincerely;

Mario

[quote]Or maybe the stupid private message thing is so full of hate-mail it crashed my account! [/quote]

Maybe, It's full of "straight up less than supportive answers"!

   I had somebody PM me one time calling me, all kinds, of well crafted "observations" that were really vicious insults and horriby vitriolic! One could almost feel the slobbery foam flyng out of this guy's mouth at me!

   After taking offense at first, I realized he was very, very correct! I had stepped way over a line by turning him into a purple Barney-like dinosaur! I appologized so profusely! Because it was my fault!

IT"S A JOKE!!! Hesh treated me so kindly that it made me tremble in terror that any may, even possibly, consider my joke an affront to his character.

   Mario, I don't know you and I think you like it that way. I avoid corresponding with you because I feel it irritates you. I believe you to be a intelligent well meaning guy, but I think others feel this irritation from you also. I can literally say I feel very bad if you adhere to this decision not to post. If I have offended you I wish you would let me know I will very likely apologize.

    I have gone through very difficult time to almost loosing my life twice, loosing all my property, due to difficulty of diagnosis of my condition and almost starvation itself. Through this I have learned there are much more important things than guitars.

    I can assure you, most emphatically, If one doesn't learn this value of human feeling and true concern they will be the most horrible of failures.

    I would also ask you sincerely to "hold hands and sing Kumbaya" like, if not even better, than the rest of us!

     
    




    

_________________
Billy Dean Thomas
Covina, CA

"Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur."
(Many fear their reputation, few their conscience)

Mario, I've always known you to stand up for what you believe. I applaud you in that. It's not the easiest thing in the world to do, and writing it is sometimes harder.

I have only PM'd you once I believe and I think is was in regards to an issue I had with something you said. I never did hear back from you. Sometimes it is better to approach people in private with a problem rather than in the open forum. Be that as it may, I have to say that I have not always agreed with everything you've said, but have respected the fact that you will stand up for what you believe to be true, and you have admitted when you saw something the wrong way. I think that I've perceived that strong belief as arrogance, and I'm not quite sure where I stand on that matter at this moment. But know this, I do believe you have wisdom to impart to the luthier community and hope that you do stay here to pass on that wisdom.

The word Church and Religion are funny things. Everything that is done with passion and unrelenting pursuit is religion in my mind. People who run for more than exercise sake, because they "just have to" is religion. People who race cars because that's all they can think of and they "just have to do it" is religion. People who think and ponder about building guitars all day long etc...., that can be religion. This is that persons Church. Out of that pursuit, friendships can form if you let them.

I've seen you as that person who stands at the back and inputs his great wisdom without ever buying in to the relationship. I hope for your sake that you do have those sorts of relationships somewhere in your life. I think everyone needs support when the S*&t hits the fan. It's not always easy to "get over it".

I have always believed both here and on the MIMF that you've never really been about the relationship side of a forum, and that is fine, but please don't put down those of us who do desire the relational side of this forum. It has helped many people with more than just guitar building and this is definitely OK.

I'm very sorry that your PM in-box has been bombarded with two faced poster's

Shame on those who have sent them. Post the same way in public as you would in private for goodness sake. Grow up and be an adult, back room banter is what high schoolers do who have not matured yet.

I've said it before and will continue to say it as long as it happens.
Written word is very very hard to distinguish sarcasm and humor. I do find it hard to find the humor in your new member name, but I can see how this experience can be frustrating.

Like I said on the off topic forum, I've only ever heard of Lance blocking one forum member, that was Jeff of Brazil Tone Wood. That was nasty nasty and he had to leave. Maybe they've asked other's to leave at some point but I don't think they've outright blocked someone. I don't think you Mario have ever posted something that would cause you to be blocked IMO.

Like you said, you and Al have been at each other for several years now, I've seen it on the MIMF and here, but have never thought that you two have hated eachother. I see that you can have a debate and still be mature, although I don't always agree with your side of the story and sometimes have a hard time with the "sighs" but that is who you are I suppose.

I do hope you stay, I do have a regret with my first post here about saying I don't give weight to a person who posts sarcastically or with "sighs" in tow. Of course that was directed at you and I am sorry for that. I do value your input, sometimes hard to take, but "pearls of wisdom" can be hard to swallow depending on how they are coated.

I agree with JJ though, it I learn that you've been blocked or suspended I may have a hard time sticking around, I just don't see the host as doing that, but I also don't know what goes on behind the scenes here either, I can only judge by what is public print.

_________________
My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

    Post a single name of the person who asked you to leave. I'm sure alot
will be revealed and will be able to be resolved if you'll do that. I knew
immediately that nothing had been touched on your account by Lance or
Brock and wondered why you would even assume that and then post the
possibility of it here. Maybe posting that name will also prompt the
appropriate apologies.

    I've always appreciated your posts and have enjoyed your tongue in
cheek approach to contributing....even if posts were placed more for fun
than for anything else they serve to lighten what could otherwise be
tough reding threads. I joke alot and can be pretty sarcastic with friends
in conversation, but avoid it online because, without specifying a remark
as being intended as sarcastic, people have been offended by me in the
past. I save it for personal and face to face exchanges, but enjoy it when
others use it in print.

    It sounds like you may just be looking for reinforcement for your
reasons for leaving and gathering a group of support for it. Your post
didn't really clear the air, but threw a bunch of fresh dust into the wind. I
still don't get where the whole thing started in that thread about voicing
backs.....I must have just read what was posted by everybody and missed
all of the underlying or hidden meanings. I've read the entire thread
several times and am obviously missing something.

    I like the atmosphere here and will take it over the musenet style
atmosphere of a bunch of guys slipping on their internet muscles and
leaving their professionalism behind as they bully, insult and belittle each
other in efforts to make their points the most widely accepted ones.
Friendly people actually address each other with freindly words and in
friendly ways and are willing to take the time it takes to carefully select
their words when they post....never at the expense of honesty or
instruction, but out of consideraton for the people and the community as
a whole. When a simple firm answer is what it takes, that's what I like to
read. It'a shame to see considerate mutual treatment dismissed as less
than honest or as politically correct behaviour just because it's a but more
of a labor than just throwinf our whatever thought falls on us. Education
and advising others is a tsk and honor that needs to approached as just
that. I wish I had known a builder who'd built a good number of guitars
and was willing to patiently offer me advice when i was starting. I was
surrounded by a couple of guys who really ended up being jerks as they
used the "prison cafeteria" teaching mentality when i asked tham a
question.....They were so busy hovering over their plates to protect what
ended up being a very shallow knowledge to keep me from catching up at
all. One of them has built less than 60 guiars and the other is yet to
complete his very first, but they talk a game that would lead you to
believe that they're world class builders if you didn't know better. I swore
that I's never do that same injustice to less experienced builders.

    I watched one forum that was a powerful force in guitar talk on the web
as it was run into the ground by a continuous attitiude of bullying and
open outright insulting of member who disagreed with the powers to be
there. Blocking of posts that expressed opinions that were contrary to
those of the mods and a crew of lemming like members who cowered at
the feet of the, in order to be part of the body in power. It's sad that it
was a great place once, but is now just a ghost of what it once was. I
know that Lance and Brock won't let that happen to the OLF and that they
certainly won't be the cause of it because their goal is more to benefit the
community than to bask in ther power as almighty moderators.

   I'm sorry to see you continue holding onto things that hurt your
feelings as reasons to stop hanging out here. It's the first time I've even
seen anyone say they were moving on because peole were too nice or
eager to get along without insulting one another or arguing.

Give us a few names of folks who overstepped their boundaries and came
down hard on you to make you decide to go elsewhere. I've had alot of
bad said about me via emails and private exchanges and it turns out that
it has always been between guys who have more money than brans and
even less courage and integrity. None of them have ever met or even
talked to me and none have a clue of my personal situation or have ever
played a single guitar that I've built, but they sure had a load of trash to
share about me. It lasted until a friend of mine happened to be included
in one of their garbage exchanges and forwarded a long list of emails to
me. It hurt, but I immediately contacted a fw of these bozos and invited
them to call me to actually get to know the person they were sounding
like they knew so well. They are just little boys who never grew past the
troublemaker stage in life....still passing notes to other troublemakers.

     One of them actually contacted me to initiate an order with me and
i promptly refused the order. We need to realize that the customer has no
more to choose us than we do choose whether or not to build for them. I
thought for sure that my refusal would make the forums the next day, but
it's never been mentioned publicly....he knows that any mention would be
directly followed by my reasons for not buildng for him.

It woud be nice to see you hang in there and be a part of the group here,
We enjoy you and your input because we've all come to understand the
heart behind you contributions.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

Since I could be considered a "point man" (more accurately, a "no point man") or at least one of them in this discussion, I would like to add my thoughts.

I enter this forum in a somewhat unique way, in that I'm a newbie builder, but, according to my agent, Richard Glick, the only one in the world he would ever send a guitar for re-voicing. For those of you who don't know him, fineguitarconsultants.com represents over 35 of the top builders (and me) and my bracework.

I have seen the tragic effects on close to ten guitars hacked away by others claiming to improve sound, and once replaced the X brace on a Mossman that had been destroyed by too much post-factory scalloping.

And so, when I made my first post regarding Hesh's question last January regarding why bridges are shaped as they are, I approached the question as someone who felt he knew something about the subject. I wrote an article on my investigations into brace shapes, which was published in the Spring, 2001 issue of "American Lutherie". This was a follow up to my first article there in 1996, which outlined my Sound is Round theory. I've been contracted by them to give workshops in their 2001 and 2006 conventions.

Kevin, since you feel this is much ado about nothing, you need to go back and read the posts last January on Hesh's topic about bridge shapes. However, it might be better to just move on.

I was taken aback at the barrage of criticism my posts generated back then, not only based on my theories, but what was considered a lack of "scientific method" on my part. Mario was not the only one attacking me, but his were distinctly personal and derogatory. I am embarrassed to say that before long, I went negative, too.   

To be honest, it felt like a gang rape. I also want to add that I was not in good physical or mental condition, due to what my surgeon said was the longest and most painful recovery he had ever seen, following a radical prostatectomy. Details not necessary.

And so, at the time I felt ashamed for some of the things I said, midst the pearls of wisdom... And deleted my posts and pulled back from OLF. I received some PMs expressing regret that I had quit, and hopes that I would return.

I'm back, I'm finally over the surgery in April to open up the tube, and can, well, never mind.

I've already learned many things from this forum, and appreciate the good vibes overall. I'm a newbie builder, at only 14 completed from scratch. But my homework on brace shaping began in 1983.

Lance mentioned the hypothetical case of a first time builder whose friends compliment him to arrogance. But how many have been hired by Bob Taylor to build a couple of guitars at his factory? And how many have built two guitars in conjunction with Gibson's custom shop in Bozeman?

I first met Bob at the 1995 GAL convention, and took the opportunity to show him a 915C I had revoiced. I watched his mouth fall open with his first strum. I went to the 2000 ASIA convention in Nashville, where I had the opportunity to show him the second guitar I'd completed, and my re-voiced D-28. He hired me to spend a week at their factory that May, and I worked on several guitars. I also learned a lot. I still suffer from occasional delusions of adequacy, and recognize that it borders on arrogance at times.

I hope you will pardon the history, but perhaps it will shed some light as to why I assume that I have something valuable to share about this one aspect of lutherie. I am also here to learn what others have to say about the nuts and bolts of the whole enchalada. I wish I had had this source of information when I started building in 1999--could have avoided a number of time consuming learning opportunities.

And so, when I started posting recently, I received some nice compliments and welcome backs. When Mario started in on me again, I know of one of our members who PM'd him in my defense, not wanting me to withdraw again. (I learned to call finger braces side braces at the Taylor factory--that seemed good enough for me.)

There are obviously many ways to build guitars, and many theories as to how they work. I don't claim to have all the answers, and do not doubt the validity of many others' observations. It's just that I've never read anything that seemed practical, such as giving a clue as to how to raise the volume of that D string when it's dead. I only see the guitars in my re-voicing work that people don't like.

A friend recently wrote: "Folks just have to remember that your theories are just a 'tool' and an approach that appears to be working. Newton didn't invent gravity, just observed it." (I would add that even though Einstein showed that there was more to it, Newton's Laws work pretty well in the real world.) He has been using my ideas since he heard my 2001 GAL workshop, and has applied them to building classical guitars. I can't understand half of what he says, but where he's taken my ideas works for him. Another quote: "Yes folks, they aren't all perfect as extruded from the bench. I'm now to the point where I haven't had a need to alter or patch a problem for quite a while - thanks BTW - but the point is that if the makers were doing it right in the first place you'd be out of a job, or could get back to building."

But first, there's a OOO-28EC calling me from my bench.

I am glad to see the comments on this thread, and hope they will bring the necessary healing for us all to get back to the fun of guitars, the excitement of learning.

With respect for all,

Scott van Linge/Parabolic Braceworks

    I say lets agree to disagree and not be dissagreeable. I love this place and never really took differences of opinion to heart.
    We are all paying the same for the advice so it is worth what you pay for . There are more than one way to do things , and the object is to share experience.
    Though we all run into the ego generators in all sites , that isn't what this is about. Experience shared is teaching , accepting that experience is Learning.
    Mario may have been grumpy and at times brutally honest in his way of doing things , I never took that to heart and he agreed of that of himself.
     The typical Barney Fife syndrom does come out in some people and often they like to hear themselve type. Hopefully what I offered here was accepted in the spirit attended and to the few that may have offended me and if I offended anyone , I allways try to shrug that off as Bad Day Issues.
    To all , have fun ,keep the strings on the outside and May God Bless
john hall
blues creek guitars
     

Personally, I'm here to learn, not offer my opinions about things of which there are others with far more knowledge and experience. That's one of the reasons I have accumulated relatively few posts in spite of being an OLF member from the days when there were fewer than 80 members.

In my youth I apprenticed as a mold maker with two very crusty old machinists, neither of whom gave a fig for my opinion about anything and both of whom constantly pointed out my failings in a way that left no doubt about my status as a hopeless, possibly incurable blockhead.

I hated every minute of it. But you know, I made a very good living for more than 16 years using the things they taught me. And as a bonus, I still have all my fingers!

I'll take honesty every time — even if it is brutal.

_________________
D..

I'm just happy to be here!

Me too!

How exhausting.

I like Mario, both for his advice and his no-nonsense demeanor.

Most of what he says is like a breath of realistic and applicable fresh air to me.

This is the only forum I really participate in (and not very often even then) - I hope he sticks around.

_________________
Instagram: @jfrenchluthier
Web: https://www.jfrenchguitars.com/

Well stated, Dennis! I've considered myself as an apprentice of sorts from the very beginning that I started posting on forums. I greatly appreciated the generous words of wisdom from those who, by the nature of their posts, obviously knew about what they were talking. In the spirit of an apprentice, I quietly took notes. When I could muster up the nerve to ask what I felt were intelligent questions, I often found that those questions were in fact not well thought out and sometimes just kinda dumb. Getting embarrassed was part of the learning experience but the lessons were valuable. Was that brutal...I don't think so...my self-esteem quickly improved based upon my drive to succeed, and the "brutality" of truth only served to hasten the learning process. Self esteem improves due to the success and confidence born of hard work. PC in education today dictates that if a child says that 2+2=5 he should not be corrected since it will negatively affect his self esteem. Please let's not go there. Tell it like it is and move on.

There's value in this thread in that we can voice our opinions and hopefully make the forum a better place. But I believe this is not a place where members should be contacting other members to ask them to leave. For those who would do such a thing to Mario or anyone else...shame on you!

_________________
JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

Kevin, nice post. I won't name names for a couple of reasons. first is that they need the forum more than I, or otherwise, they wouldn't have taken on the role of self appointed moderator, and written me to tell me how mean I is, and how I need to change or leave "their" forum. Heck, someone wrote me correcting my grammar at some point not long ago! Is my grammar so bad that you feel compelled to write me in private? If so, my apologies, but I only began to learn this language at the age of 8, from non other than Sesame Street. Honest and for true! Second reason for not naming names is that i couldn't get them all, and it would not be nice to condemn 2-3 and let a few others go. This(the PM's, the e-mails, etc...) has been going on for a long wile now. We can't even have a fun discussion about table saw blades without my inbox lighting up. My apologies if i can't, in good conscience, recommend a $180 blade over a $12 blade, when the $12 one is better for our use. Yet someone felt strongly enough to write me and tell me to back off or leave. It goes back since I arrived here(I was invited, BTW; it's not like crashed your party...)

I'm not looking for a support group, and I'm not looking to grab folks to follow me anywhere else. The air I wanted to clear was why was gone, and I think I made it clear, as clear as possible without "hurting" someone further.

Scott, I'd love to debate with you, and tried to do so intelligently, and respectfully last time. In countered your "thinking" with honest, solid, well proven examples of where your reasoning seemed wrong. It was you who would not counter with solid facts and historic examples to uphold your end. In the end, you got angry and that was that. A debate is not a fight, it's two sides presenting their view, and seeing where it leads. I expected at some point you'd open my eyes with something solid, but you wouldn't even acknowledge anything. As I said many times then, your results were never questioned; it's the "why" we question. An example is that you say that finger braes shouldn't touch the X braces. I agree. I've been "floating" my braces since the late '90's... But you say wit authority it's because the energy of the rings or something, is interupted. I say it's simply because it frees up the top to move as a whole. Science, glitter patterns and fancy video spectrology(sp?) has proven that every frequency radiates in a different pattern on an instrument. Notes(energy) don't form perfect rings in a material that is stiffer in one direction than the other, then braced assymetrically....

That's just one example, and we could have had fun batting back and forth, with all of us learning something. But you simply got torqued. Same this time. we were able to solve a person's weak string problem,and you were dissapointed for him. Fixed is fixed, no matter if it was easy or complex.

But that's not why we're here today. Please know that you are not the spark that lit the fire. It's been along journey, it's the self appointed moderators, private-messenger-trigger-happy souls that pushed me over. It's like when the church ladies bicker until the choir quits <bg>

Y'all go back to guitars, now, please. Let this die, ad let me quietly lurk for the next good tip(B&B veneers was last week's hot tip; thanks!).

Have a good one.

post deletedBarryDaniels39035.4687615741

I feel like George Jetson...."Jane Stop the is crazy thing!!!!!!"
Seriously folks, lets get back to building and talking GEEEEETARS!!!!!!

_________________
Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com

That's right, LIVE AND LET LIVE!

as a total amateur at this building lark, could I make a comment as a TEACHER.

sometimes it takes someone whos nearer the student's level to explain something.

Sometimes the "expert" takes much for granted and assumes that the student should know certain stuff.

this is certainly my experience as a highschool teacher, and often I've asked a student to explain something to a classmate as they don't understand what I'm trying to explain.

Like a 3 yearold drawing a picture, some of us are proud of what we've done even if it would be laughed out of the room at a big guitar show.

I have HUGE respect for those who have made a career of Luthiery, but I'm grateful for those here who allow us noobs to mess around in the sandpit and try things ourselves.

I KNOW that if I'm gonna do this seriously, even as a hobby, I'll need a hot pipe to bend on, and the wallpaper stripper will go back into storage until I next need to remove wallpaper, but FOR NOW it works on Rosewood and walnut and oak.

I came up with the bridge placement jig that there's a thread on here about and I'm proud of it and will continue to use it for the forseeable.

If I've offended anyone here I'm truely sorry.

but then offence has to be TAKEN.......

Actively........

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