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| Anyone Bend with SuperSoft? http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=10191 |
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| Author: | j.Brown [ Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:12 am ] |
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Have any of you used Supersoft or Supersoft 2 to assist in the bending of sides? If so, how did you use it? Spray it and go? Spray and wait...etc. Thanks. -j. |
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| Author: | Dave Rector [ Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:29 am ] |
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I think Uncle Bob the Zootman also did a little testing with Supersoft too. |
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:44 am ] |
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I've used it successfully on several occasions with Waterfall Bubinga, Sapele, Mahogany and Snakewood bindings. Here's what worked for me: 1) Lightly spritz SS2 on both sides 2) Wait at least 2 hours. I've waited as long as overnight 3) Lightly spritz with distilled water and wrap in craft paper 4) Bend according to your favorite times and temps. I usually bend between 275 and 310 depending on the wood. Good luck, J...I hope your success is as good as mine has been. I'm a strong believer in this stuff and will continue to use it especialy on highly figured wood. |
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| Author: | David Collins [ Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:22 am ] |
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What is this stuff? I've never heard of it, and a google search leads to page after page of results from software to bass strings and toilet paper. |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:47 am ] |
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You can get super soft from Joe Woodworker Check out the little video where the guy rolls up the burled veneer, it's cool. Just wish they said how long he waited before rolling. |
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| Author: | David Collins [ Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:48 am ] |
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I've heard of this being done with anhydrous ammonia (an essential chemical for meth labs, so it may be more difficult to get today through legal means), but was unaware what other chemicals softened wood for bending. Where does it come from JJ? |
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| Author: | Pwoolson [ Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:48 am ] |
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Look into veneer suppliers (I think there's a veneersupply.com but I could be wrong) as they use it to relax curl in veneer. I've used it a few times. Word of caution: let it dry completely before bending. I learned this one the hard way. The heat completely baked in a really nasty stain that won't sand out. But if you let it dry completely then spritz as normal, it works great. |
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| Author: | David Collins [ Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:48 am ] |
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Synchronized posting again... Thanks Rod. Edit: and Paul.... |
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| Author: | MSpencer [ Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:52 am ] |
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I am planning to use it for bending Snakewood bindings to see if it helps Mike |
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Fri Jan 05, 2007 2:03 pm ] |
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Highland Hardware now carries it in their veneer section. It's called a grain relaxer...can't vouch for what it does molecularly but it obviously temporarily softens the wood fibers. That quart bottle will last me years. |
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| Author: | j.Brown [ Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:35 am ] |
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Thanks for the info, everyone. -j. |
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| Author: | Robbie O'Brien [ Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:49 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Hesh1956] It is alot like fabric softner which some top builders also use mixed with water and wiped on the wood prior to bending. If softens the wood at the molecular level. [/QUOTE] ... and gives you guitar that clean smell of fresh spring air! 
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| Author: | LarryH [ Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:26 pm ] |
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Our lead finish carpenter uses an ammonia bath (liquid cheap stuff) to treat wood before radiusing around stairs etc. I don't know if it does any damage internally to the wood structure but it does relax the wood. EDIT After checking the web site above I'M GETTIN SOME OF THAT STUFF. It looks like it will solve a lot of my coming challenges. I especially hate bending wooden purfling - it always wants to break instead of bend and I have no bending set-up. I'll report back on results. Larry |
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| Author: | Billy T [ Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:03 am ] |
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Err.. What was I gonna say! |
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| Author: | Billy T [ Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:06 am ] |
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I hope Sergio doesn't see this thread, he like bathes in the stuff! 
For obvious reasons!
You know, it makes sense! Natural fibers are essentially cellulose. Does anybody know the active ingredient in fabric softener? |
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| Author: | Billy T [ Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:56 am ] |
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Chemical compostion got my interest up and I looked it up! There are some fabric softeners that use something called PDMS (polydimethylsiloxane). Which is A SILICONE oil! That may be a problem. It's only .05 to 1.5% but I wouldn't mess with it. Others softeners use a compound that is essentially ammonia based. So this goes right back to the ammonia which I have heard of before. |
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| Author: | David Collins [ Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:48 am ] |
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I was going to ask if anyone has an MSDS for that stuff. I'd be quite interested in seeing what chemicals were listed. I was wondering if it might be some kind of ethylene glycol like PEG or MEG. In regards to ammonia, I've always understood that the diluted ammonia from the cleaning ailse had no effect, and it had to be pure anhydrous ammonia, kept under pressure and heat. There are alkali methods of softening, but they typically discolor the wood. If it's something like a mono-, di-, tri-, or polyethylene glycol, these are introduced in various ways to plasticize woods. Some make it more flexible, others to stabalize it through humidity changes. In any case I would be interested in what lasting effect it would have on the wood, because when these chemicals are introduced in to wood they generally stay there. |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:17 pm ] |
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[QUOTE=Billy T] I hope Sergio doesn't see this thread, he like bathes in the stuff!
For obvious reasons!
You know, it makes sense! Natural fibers are essentially cellulose. Does anybody know the active ingredient in fabric softener?[/QUOTE] AAAAAH, The Snuggle Bear, my favorite! I'm exposed! 
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| Author: | Chris Cordle [ Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:22 am ] |
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I've used fabric softener with excellent results for bending, especially ebony bindings. |
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| Author: | ecklesweb [ Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:04 pm ] |
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So if I was too lazy or poor to buy some SuperSoft online, how might I go about using fabric softener or amonia? Anyone know a recipe for a home-brew wood softener? |
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| Author: | charliewood [ Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:28 am ] |
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Im gonna bump this thread because Im also interested in what way you would use the fabric softener - just mist in addition to water, diluted or not? etc. also was wondering if anyone else has an idea whether supersoft is one of these products that has silicone in "it"? ANyhow good thread and useful information. Cheers Charliewood |
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:59 am ] |
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My initial glue trials were unaffected by the SS2. I've glued stuff to 3 guitars so far and there appears to be no difference in it's appearance, ability to take finish and so far there are no warts growing on the surface! 
On the other hand, I have no idea what's in fabric softener and wouldn't be surprised if it contained a surfactant or 2...possibly silicone. My advice...test carefully! |
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| Author: | BBailey [ Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:12 am ] |
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I used a solution of one part fabric softener and 3 parts water to bend the side on my first guitar about 18 years ago. It was Brazilian rosewood and I soaked the sides overnight and cold pressed them into a form. It worked really well but I did run into problems with the finish setting up. Bob |
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