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| Glue For Veneers? http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=10297 |
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| Author: | LarryH [ Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:57 pm ] |
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I want to glue on 3 to 6 layers of maple/black/maple veneer below the head plate to create a binding like effect but can't imagine using LMI white or Tite Bond on such thin layers. Am I wrong? Or is there a better option? Also this is a slot head so a gapless bond is necessary throughout the entire joint. thanks Larry |
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| Author: | A Peebels [ Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:00 pm ] |
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I don't know what is correct, but I have used tightbond with good results. I made good clamping cauls with cork faces and used plenty of clamps to keep the pressure even. Al |
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| Author: | Steve Saville [ Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:06 pm ] |
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I used LMI white for that without any trouble. |
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| Author: | LarryH [ Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:55 pm ] |
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Thanks very much, LMI white it is. |
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| Author: | TRein [ Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:26 am ] |
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It is going to take a long time for the water to leave that glue-up, on the order of weeks. Plus, you will warp the headstock a bit. I would recommend polyurethane glue. It does not require evaporation and there is no water to warp your headstock. Elmer's Pro Bond, which I believe is now called Ultimate Glue or something as silly, foams less than Gorilla Glue, holds just as well, and costs less. |
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| Author: | LarryH [ Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:49 am ] |
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[QUOTE=TRein] It is going to take a long time for the water to leave that glue-up, on the order of weeks. Plus, you will warp the headstock a bit. I would recommend polyurethane glue. It does not require evaporation and there is no water to warp your headstock. Elmer's Pro Bond, which I believe is now called Ultimate Glue or something as silly, foams less than Gorilla Glue, holds just as well, and costs less. [/QUOTE] I'm no expert on glue and their properties but it would seem that the poly's tendency to expand would not be a great choice. I never know where to use the polys because the glue lumps that creep out all over as it sets are impossible to control. Also the viscosity seems a bit high to truly get the veneers bonded without any perceivable gaps. Have you used both? Have you had a problem with the water based glues? Have you had good luck with the polys? |
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| Author: | Dave White [ Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:56 am ] |
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For bwb laminations under heelcaps (to match side purflings) I've glued up maple/ebony/maple veneers with superglue pretty effectively. I also did it once under a peghead overlay with superglue on a solid headstock. Needs good tight clamping but it worked out fine. |
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| Author: | Bobc [ Thu Jan 11, 2007 3:03 am ] |
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Larry Joe Woodworker sells a glue specifically for veneers. I have used regular titebond without a problem. Use cauls and good even clamping pressure. Don't be in a hurry to remove the clamps. A fan blowing on your glue-up helps dissapate the moisture and dry the glue more quickly. |
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| Author: | Steve Saville [ Thu Jan 11, 2007 3:11 am ] |
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Larry, When I did mine, I clamped everything on a sheet of plywood with the thicker headstock overlay on top. That kept everything nice and straight. As soon as I put the water-based glue on the veneers, they immediately warped. Clamping overnight was plenty of drying time for me, but I live in a pretty warm and dry place. You could try some very slow setting CA or 30 minute epoxy. I really had no trouble at all with LMI white and would not hesitate to do it again. |
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| Author: | TRein [ Thu Jan 11, 2007 4:30 am ] |
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[QUOTE=LarryH] Have you used both? Have you had a problem with the water based glues? Have you had good luck with the polys?[/QUOTE] I have used both and now use polyurethane to glue the headstock veneer on. Titebond would slightly bow the face of the headstock, and we are talking 7/8" thick head. If you glued veneers on both sides of the headstock at once, you probably would not have a problem with Titebond. The lack of water in the polyurethane makes it ideal for headstock veneers. The headstock remains dead flat and since I shape my headstock with hand-held router, that is a real plus. Viscosity is not an issue, IMO. Use a putty knife to smear a thin coating on all surfaces and apply adequate pressure. Wear rubber gloves, as it is a bit messy and hard to clean up after. Another option is to glue up your contrasting inlay sandwich first with Titebond and then glue them between your headstock and neck with polyurethane. |
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| Author: | Greg [ Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:43 am ] |
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I have used both titebond and polyurethane glue and would use either for a head stock veneer. Both cause the veneer to curl as I spritz the veneer with water for the poly and Tbond is water based. Clamp tight watching for slip. Rout the rim and it gives a beautiful layered effect. For laminating BWB to binding I prefer polyurethane. |
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| Author: | LarryH [ Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:14 am ] |
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You guys are so very helpful. Appreciate the help very much. Larry |
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| Author: | phil c-e [ Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:03 pm ] |
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don't know all that much about glues myself. but i've worked in a cabinet shop where veneers were always glued with contact cement. any reason not to use it in this sort of application? phil |
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| Author: | LarryH [ Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:48 pm ] |
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[QUOTE=phil c-e] don't know all that much about glues myself. but i've worked in a cabinet shop where veneers were always glued with contact cement. any reason not to use it in this sort of application? phil[/QUOTE] Yeah I've seen that done as well but here's the challenge to my way of thinking. 1. The veneer I have is very thin and I plan to use 3 layers W(maple)/B/W or 6 layers WW/BB/WW if the 3 do not create enough definition. 2.It's a slot head so the veneer and any glue line or gap will show along the ramps. 3. If those joints aren't 'perfect' it could look like crap in the ramps. 4. Seems the glue needs to dry clear to be sure the glue lines don't show and needs to squeeze out enough to make the joint disappear. Not sure contact cement will allow all those things to occur. Not sure it won't either but still leaning towards the LMI or perhaps a combo as was suggested of LMI and poly. Maybe the maple glued with LMI if I have to use the double WW/BB/WW, then that combo glued with poly for the rest of the glue up. Hmmm. Will get it done this weekend for certain though and I'll post some pics if interesting. |
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