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It seems to me that assuming you keep the scale length the same, with
smaller bodied guitars it would be better to attach at the 14th fret (or 13th)
and not the 12th fret. With a smaller body and with a 12 fret design, it
would put the bridge too low in the lower bout.    Why is it that 12 frets are
so popular in small body guitars.
By definition the bridge is lower down in a 12 fret and it with small body it
would be relatively lower. I would think 12 fret designs would be better for
larger body guitars.
Am I missing something here????

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Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com

Very good question Andy, i'm still trying to decide on a 12 fret 0r 14 fret neck join for my O-18.

I believe that smaller-bodied guitars generally have shorter scale lengths...so that the bridge is not too far back. I built 2 small parlor guitars from the Scott Antes plans. I believe the scale length was 24.5" and it is a 12 fret. This shorter scale length I believe addresses your concern.

In general, I like the performance of a 12 fret guitar since its bridge is positioned in a more active spot on the lower bout.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

[QUOTE=azimmer1] By definition the bridge is lower down in a 12 fret and it with small body it
would be relatively lower. I would think 12 fret designs would be better for
larger body guitars.
Am I missing something here????[/QUOTE]


Andy,

I don't see why. Take a small body guitar with 14 frets clear of the body. Now take the same guitar and change the shape of the upper bout curves so that they meet the neck at the 12th fret. Adapt the upper bout bracing - moving the neck block forward along with the upper bout brace. You now have a 12 fret clear of the body guitar of the same scale length with the bridge in exactly the same position in relation to the lower bout as on the 14 fret clear version.

You can get a 12 fret clear version by keeping the same body shape and moving the bridge down towards the tail block but this is "design choice" not "by definition".

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

as dave points out the better 12 fret designs, regardless of size, incorporate a slightly different body shape than their 14 fret equivalents to handle the problem.crazymanmichael39104.3392824074

At any rate, the 'right' place for the bridge on the soundboard will depend a lot on how you brace the top, and that's under your control. The 'widest part of the lower bout' is something of a myth, IMO.

Sometimes it is to balance the weight of the neck with the body. Longer neck can make a neck heavy instrument which is uncomfortable for the musician.

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Greg
http://garibaldiinstruments.com/

Andy,

Adding to what Dave and Michael said, 12-fret bodies are stretched to meet the 12th fret, or as Todd said, the original 12-fret bodies were reshaped -- flattened, if you will -- to meet the 14th fret.

Compare some of the 12 and 14-fret body length dimensions in this table from MIMF. It clearly illustrates the difference, which amounts to about an inch.

Martin guitar dimensions

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now known around here as Pat Foster
_________________
http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Correct me if Im wrong, but because 14 frets takes more off of the body,
doesn't the sound get effected negativly. I believe I have read that 12 fret
dreads have more bass than 14 fret dreads. But then again were talking
about small bodies. Personally any 12 fret parlor I have played sounds better
to me than any 14 fret smaller body.

Listen to Alan Carruth!
Scale length and body shape can be what ever you want (not to extremes)
Bracing ,wood thicknesses ,and body depth will have the greatest affect on sound.
I have a 12 fret steel 36.6 cm wide in the lower bout -650mm scale only 4 1/4 deep at the tail and it's a screamer.
Mike Collins

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Mike Collins

Great thread folks, thanks for the input!

[QUOTE=outstrung] Correct me if Im wrong, but because 14 frets takes more off of the body,
doesn't the sound get effected negativly. I believe I have read that 12 fret
dreads have more bass than 14 fret dreads. But then again were talking
about small bodies. Personally any 12 fret parlor I have played sounds better
to me than any 14 fret smaller body.[/QUOTE]

Other things being more or less equal, 12-fret guitars have more bass because of the greater body length and air volume. The 12-fret dreadnaught indeed has, in most cases, more bass than the 14-fret. Dreads are already bass heavy, but in the case of a small bodied guitar that may need some help with bass because of its size, 12-frets is a plus.Howard Klepper39110.9011574074

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.