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I swear I should be out in the garage working on this guitar instead of trying to figure out such things as this post. First of all I would not know a 'good' tap tone from a bad one but this thing really sounds like a drum.

Again can't say if it's good or bad but I read a LOT about tap tones and thought I would attempt to post one for you all to listen to. Recording and picture taking skills are poor at best but I'm sure you'll get the idea.

The back is for a 000 12 fretter I'm building and it will have a redwood top. I had some old growth clear heart redwood laying around my house for literally ten years and I saw it and thought, "Yeah I'll make some braces out of it," and thought about how nice it would be to see all red when looking through the sound hole as well. So I cut the brace stock from that tight grained old growth redwood and carved the braces you see.

Put in an X-brace just because it seemed like a good idea and capped it with blood wood. I know how much I like pictures of anything guitar so I thought I would post this progress of the back, even though it is a bit rough still. Also check the MP3 and tell me what you think?

MP3 tap tone

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Very nice Larry. Sounds great too. Bloodwood is on my list of underutilized but very good tone wood. Nice too see someone using it.

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Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

[QUOTE=verhoevenc] Very cool. Not to mention you read my mind on what I was thinking about the other day "does bloodwood make a good back/sides?"
Not to mention I like how you're going a little out there and not using spruce for the bracing, good to see how this turns out! Are you doing redwood bracing for the top too??
Chris[/QUOTE]

Chris,

I still can't say if blood wood will make a good back and sides as my experience is very limited. The wood is quite hard, brittle and difficult, so far to work with. The sides have splintered and split twice (in areas that were removed).

The redwood top will have spruce braces because I think the stiffness is a must but man if I had tons of time and resources I would love to try the top braced with redwood, just to experiment.

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Thanks for the file and since you're a beginner, why not experiment with redwood as top braces too, just make parabolic btaces and see, you might be onto something here, i know i would try it!

Here's one built by Matt Mustapick
http://mustapickguitars.com/cn/2/pages/4.html

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Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

[QUOTE=Serge Poirier] Thanks for the file and since you're a beginner, why not experiment with redwood as top braces too, just make parabolic braces and see, you might be onto something here, i know i would try it! [/QUOTE]

Yeah Serge I agree but it's too late as I've already braced the top with spruce. I didn't think of the redwood possibility until after the top was braced.

Interesting thinking of the possibilities but it's also a bit hard to go TOO far off the beaten path because I do want a great sounding guitar and the redwood braces might lend a too distinct tone to the guitar.

I've never used nor played a redwood guitar before so perhaps if I like the sound the redwood braces may become an option.

Have you ever heard of anyone using redwood as a top and brace material? If not that may be reason enough to try it.

Also I know an mp3 is not the greatest way to 'hear' a tap tone but does the sound in that file sound good? Bad? High? Low? Does it really matter that much?

Thanks

Larry

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Larry...the tap sounds clear and resonant. I can't say what effect the redwood braces will have long-term but others may have experience.

I'll be interested in seeing how you finally braced the top...I think you'll be glad you used spruce there.

Are you able to get a tap MP3 on the braced top so as to compare to the back?

BTW...if you have these braced now, it's important to get them glued to the rims soon to preserve the dome and before they have a chance to distort.

The 000-12 fret is my favorite size...good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

[QUOTE=JJ Donohue] Larry...the tap sounds clear and resonant. I can't say what effect the redwood braces will have long-term but others may have experience.

I'll be interested in seeing how you finally braced the top...I think you'll be glad you used spruce there.

Are you able to get a tap MP3 on the braced top so as to compare to the back?

BTW...if you have these braced now, it's important to get them glued to the rims soon to preserve the dome and before they have a chance to distort.

The 000-12 fret is my favorite size...good luck and keep us posted on your progress.[/QUOTE]

Thanks so much for the feedback JJ. I'll work on the current state of the top and see if can get an MP3 posted tonight. It might be fun to hear any differences and or similarities.

And you illustrate a very large problem with my building schedule. I own 2 San Diego construction companies and get a rare hour or two in the evenings to get any guitar work done.

I had a sense that time was of the essence as far as preserving the domes but cannot rush the attachment to the rims as time will not allow. Being aware of that possibility will allow me to plan for gluing in the dishes with additional go-bars to preserve the dome.

Thank again for the reply and info

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I recently received a beautiful, stripey set of bloodwood from LMI. It has very lively, glassy tap tones (I say tones, rather than tone, because of the various overtones). It will probably be a while before I build a guitar with it, but I've got a very good feeling about it. It's definitely the glassiest sounding set in my stash (I don't have any BRW).

Like Larry's set, mine is slab sawn, which I usually avoid. It almost looks QS, because it was cut near the pith of the tree, so the flat area is narrow. There is also no grain runout, so the growth ring lines, even in the flat area, appear parallel on the surface (though they get wide), rather than arched [EDIT: Well, not exactly... see below].

Still, I'd like to get some bloodwood sets that are quartersawn. Ideally some that have nice color variation like that Mustapick guitar. I have a feeling this wood will be great for an acoustic bass guitar, so I hope to find some large sets as well.

Does anybody know if bloodwood trees are limited in size, making QS sets hard to come by? Todd Rose39112.4492708333

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

[QUOTE=Todd Rose] I recently received a beautiful, stripey set of bloodwood from LMI. It has very lively, glassy tap tones (I say tones, rather than tone, because of the various overtones). It will probably be a while before I build a guitar with it, but I've got a very good feeling about it. It's definitely the glassiest sounding set in my stash (I don't have any BRW).

Like Larry's set, mine is slab sawn, which I usually avoid. It almost looks QS, because it was cut near the pith of the tree, so the flat area is narrow. There is also no grain runout, so the growth ring lines, even in the flat area, appear parallel on the surface (though they get wide), rather than arched.

Still, I'd like to get some bloodwood sets that are quartersawn. Ideally some that have nice color variation like that Mustapick guitar. I have a feeling this wood will be great for an acoustic bass guitar, so I hope to find some large sets as well.

Does anybody know if bloodwood trees are limited in size, making QS sets hard to come by? [/QUOTE]

Todd,

Is there any way to get a picture up on the forum - I'd love to check it out. And your description of the tap tones seem right on, though as you know, I'm no authority. It was the reason I decided to pair it with redwood - thought the crisp/glassy tones could fit really nicely with the warmth of the redwood.

Still love to see a pic of your blood wood set.

Thanks for the feedback

Larry

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[QUOTE=Bobc] Here's one built by Matt Mustapick
http://mustapickguitars.com/cn/2/pages/4.html[/QUOTE]

Man, I love that guitar.
Thanks for the link, Bob.
Oh, by the way, do you ever see any Bloodwood like Matt's?

Steve

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Larry, I won't make any promises, but I'll try to get a pic of it up here.

About the tap tones... my experience of playing guitars made of various woods is that Rosewood guitars tend to sound "deeper", "darker", richer in bass than, say, walnut, mahogany, or maple guitars. Rosewoods generally have what I would call relatively "glassy" tap tones, along with other very hard, dense woods. I'm sure there are others who can speak with a lot more authority about this than I can, and Al Carruth could probably write a book about it, with chapters on internal damping and whatnot. (If you're reading this, Al, your commentary would be most welcome.)

At any rate, based on my very tentative conclusions, I would expect a dense, hard wood like bloodwood which has a very lively and glassy tap tone to contribute to a darker, more bass-heavy sound -- even though it seems counter-intuitive -- as well as loudness. This is why I'm thinking of using it for an acoustic bass.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

Larry, I'll get a couple pics posted as soon as they get the pic upload function working.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

Hey Larry I too am building a 000 12 Fret.all I know is that the first guitar I built sounded like a drum,and it turned out sounding amazing.So keep it up.
                        James W B

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James W Bolan
Nashville Tennessee

[QUOTE=Todd Rose] Larry, I'll get a couple pics posted as soon as they get the pic upload function working.[/QUOTE]

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Thanks, Larry, for posting those.

BTW, for these pics, I thoroughly wet the back half on the left with alcohol. Never having worked with bloodwood before, I was amazed by how much red color came out of the wood onto my paper towel, and then, as the alcohol dripped down, onto the floor of my shop as well. I could have made a quart of brilliant red stain from what was coming out of this wood! No wonder it's called bloodwood - this stuff "bleeds" in the extreme! Seems like pore-filling and finishing may be a real challenge.

In your email to me, you asked what I plan to use this set for. If it were quartersawn all the way across, I'd probably use it for a relatively big guitar that I wanted to have a lot of volume and a big, full bass. This thought, again, is based on my observation that B/S woods with a very lively and glassy tap tone tend to contribute to loudness and a relatively dark, bass-rich tone. (I'm still interested to hear others' observations on this sort of thing.)

Since there's a flatsawn area about 2/3 of the way out from where the center seam will be on each half*, I will probably use it for a small body guitar (like a parlor) that I want to have a big sound with good bass. That way I can keep the outline almost entirely within the QS-to-rift area, and take advantage of the tonal quality of this wood to good effect (that is, the tonal quality I'm thinking this wood will likely contribute).

*Although the flat area is narrow and most of the lines look fairly parallel, there is actually a long, narrow oval there that you can see. It's not so much the appearance that I'm concerned about (although I don't, in fact, like the look of that), but the greater wood movement in that area.

I do think this set will make a stunning-looking small guitar. The colors and stripes toward the center are really nice.

If any wood suppliers are reading this, I sure would love to get some QS bloodwood sets with colors like this in sizes large enough to make a big acoustic bass guitar out of.   

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/