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Another newbie ..backbrace question.
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=10575
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Author:  Irwin R [ Sat Jan 27, 2007 6:14 am ]
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Hello everyone. Have been lurking here quite a while. I took the Sergei dejonge course 5 years ago and have just, this past month, started # 2 . Have spent the last few years just thinking about making # 2 but am such a procrastinator ( ie. chicken, lazy fart, slacker) that all I have really been doing is reading about it, buying some jigs and tools. ( I actually bought some stuff from Mark Kett( dishes and binding jig) when he wasn't too busy and there was no waitnig list, with guitarjigs.com...thats how long I've been doing this thinking thing.!!..


Well finally got my act together and started #2 after Christmas....have the plates jointed, the rosette cut and inlayed( after spending a few hours on my hands and knees cursing looking for tiny broken pieces of abalone that popped out of the inlay before glueing)...anyway so far so good...I am currently working on bracing the top and back...and have a question... I have a 25' dish to radius the back. I think I remember that I profiled the back braces(all 4) using the 25' foot dish as in the photo


  


I have read in a few sources that I'm using , that each of the back braces are profiled at a slightly different curvature, and not all at 25' as I remember doing with Sergei (my memory is not all that good!!...)


Could you folks please comment on what I have done..Thanks so much. You seem to have a fantastic group here..and I'm glad to come out of the closet!..a special hello to all the sergei course folks... what a great month I had with him back in 2002..Cheers..


PS hope you won't mind , but there will probably be many photos with questions to follow..have a great weekend!


Irwin


Halifax NS


Author:  Steve Saville [ Sat Jan 27, 2007 6:17 am ]
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I can't imagine that it would make a difference.
Go ahead and make them all the same.

If I'm wrong, someone please correct me.

Author:  Bill Greene [ Sat Jan 27, 2007 6:31 am ]
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I built with a teacher also, and I was told the same radius for all four braces was the standard process. In all my reading/lurking, I have yet to hear of someone building with different radius' (radii?) on different braces...that would be a compound back radius, right?

I think you're good to go!

Author:  gozierdt [ Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:06 am ]
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I use the same radius dish (I use 15' for the back) for all the braces, but I put the back onto the dish and note where each of the braces sits relative to the bottom of the dish. Then I sand each brace holding it vertical and in it's actual location relative to the bottom of the dish. So I get a compound radius on each brace- longitudinal along the brace, and transverse- across the width of the brace. It may not matter much, but it should help make it easier for the top to go into a true spherical shape. It's not much different- I agree you're good to go

Author:  Irwin R [ Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:29 am ]
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[QUOTE=gozierdt]I use the same radius dish (I use 15' for the back) for all the braces, but I put the back onto the dish and note where each of the braces sits relative to the bottom of the dish. Then I sand each brace holding it vertical and in it's actual location relative to the bottom of the dish. So I get a compound radius on each brace- longitudinal along the brace, and transverse- across the width of the brace. It may not matter much, but it should help make it easier for the top to go into a true spherical shape. It's not much different- I agree you're good to go [/QUOTE]


oops yes it's 15' dish for the back . I have a 25 for the top.


I was a little worried because in Cumpiano and Natelson (pg223) they show slightly different arches for the back braces ( unless I'm seeing it wrong..entirely possible!) Thanks..


 

Irwin R39109.9383217593

Author:  Kim [ Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:35 am ]
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Welcome to the OLF Irwin,

Some leave the upper transverse brace flat, or at least flat in the centre to flatten out that area of the top and better accommodate the fret board extension. Others just radius that brace as well and then flatten the top in that area once the box is closed. All the rest of the braces are the same radius.

Cheers

Kim

Author:  Irwin R [ Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:11 am ]
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[QUOTE=Hesh1956]I do what Gene does and learned this from Frank Finicho and his excellent DVD series.

I place the back centered in the dish and put small pieces of masking tape marking the ends of each respective brace. Then I sand the individual braces in the dish in their respective location. Each brace is also marked so that it is placed in it's intended location when doing the gule-up.

Is there any particular reason why you are using a 25' dish for the back. I use 25' for the front and 15' for the back.

And.... Welcome Irwin to the OLF!!! [/QUOTE]


Yes Sorry That was 15 for the Back 25 for the front . I was a little worried when I recieved my back wood. It seemeed to have a "stain" running down the length of each bookmatched side . It was noticable in it's "rough" form , and even after I planed and sanded itto proper thickness. I dont know it you can see it in the photo,,


I'm sure it will be ok..and I wasn't too worried since it will end up far from perfect to say the least , anyway..can anyone tell what the staining or marking might be?


Author:  James W B [ Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:54 am ]
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I`d definately place them in relationship to where they are going to be on the back .
             James W B

Author:  crazymanmichael [ Sat Jan 27, 2007 3:44 pm ]
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where you sand on the dish is irrelevant. it is, or is supposed to be, a segment of a sphere. and remember that vertical is not what is needed. perpendicular to the surface is what is required.

Author:  Irwin R [ Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:04 am ]
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Thanks everyone. I 'd almost forgot that I'd purchased Robbie O'Briens DVD when it came out...I just had a look at it and he expains it quite well and echoes what you all have pretty well said..Thanks again.


Author:  Colin S [ Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:42 am ]
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[QUOTE=crazymanmichael] where you sand on the dish is irrelevant. it is, or is supposed to be, a segment of a sphere. and remember that vertical is not what is needed. perpendicular to the surface is what is required.[/QUOTE]

I quite agree Michael, I just sand them anywhere in the dish, as you say it makes no difference, if you want them (as I do) to be perpendicular to the surface of the back rather than a straight line. A line through the centre of the braces should meet up at the centre of the sphere, in other words the braces should lie on radii of the sphere of the back, or front.

Colin

Author:  Todd Rose [ Sun Jan 28, 2007 4:15 am ]
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All the same radius.

I like the look of that back as well! Minerals in the wood, I reckon. I wish I had a set like that. I like the unique beauty of stuff like that.

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