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Stickering the wood pile?
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Author:  robertD [ Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:42 pm ]
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Hey all!

I’ve seen in posted pics. of your shops, that some of you sticker your wood.
And, I think I’ve seen some with, what appears to be, something heavy on top of the stack.

I know a little of sticking, the saw mills around here do it to air dry before they hit the planer.

I’m curious as to why, you all do it?

Also, I should say, I do not have a climate controlled environment in my shop.
In fact, I’ve been a little concerned lately, as we have had temps. In the teens the past few days.

Robert
Author:  Kim [ Wed Jan 31, 2007 12:12 am ]
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Yeah, we had temps in the teens all this past weekend here to, 113 on Saturday, 115 on Sunday....at least thats what it was in the shed.

Robert,

I think you will find that even with well quartered wood, because of the thin dimensions used in this craft it is still very reactive to the changes in RH even once seasoned.

By stickering, and keeping the plates flat, you are allowing equal exposure to both surfaces of the wood to the varying degrees in temp and humidity. This aids in stabilising the plates to that form and this is a good thing.

There are many however, who once they are happy that the wood is completely seasoned an acclimatised to their workshop, will simply stack all of their sets flat with no stickers at all. I am sure that their guitars sound just as wonderful as everyone else's.

Cheers

Kim
Author:  fryovanni [ Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:25 am ]
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Robert,

   As Kim mentioned placing sticks between the wood allows air flow to all sides of the wood. This allows moisture to escape or collect equally. If you had one side setting on a flat surface you would wind up with a dry and wet side as it aclimated. Since wood swells and contracts one side would cup. It is all about evening the transfer of moisture. It is similar to the way we seal the end grain. In that end grain accepts and rejects moisture much faster than side grain. In order to even out the transfer we slow the transfer at the endgrain.

After a board has dried pretty much to equalibrium with the normal moisture content it can be stacked(this will slow normal moisture transfer after stacking). Humidity levels do continue to change(unless you control the level). So the wood will continue to accept and reject moisture as the seasons change(this is nothing like the initial drying process, these are generally smaller changes). Some people prefer to expose the wood to this cycle of seasonal change("seasoning" the wood). Really which ever way you store the wood stacked or stickered it will still exchange moisture to some extent with changes in humidity.

Personally I sticker for as long as space allows(absolutely being sure it has equalized). I do stack wood when I need space. The space I keep my wood stored is pretty even in terms of humidity so I doubt I would see much of a difference either way.

Peace,Rich
Author:  DannyV [ Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:48 am ]
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Some woods are prone to twisting/warping more then others when they dry.
In our part of the world, the West Coast of Canada, the hardwoods are more
prone to warping. If you weight the top of the pile the boards on top will
remain straighter. Once dry they are fairly stable but it doesn't hurt to keep
some weight on the top of the pile.
Danny
Author:  Mattia Valente [ Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:48 am ]
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Cans of paint, random bits of hardware, already seasoned (big, heavy) boards of wood. Works fine.
Author:  Don Williams [ Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:56 am ]
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One other thought that most people don't take into consideration...

I'm somewhat convinced that wood surface matters also. I think a planed surface and a rough surface will react to moisture differently due to the amount of surface area and exposed pores. I've found that if I sand both sides prior to stickering, that I have less issues with warping. Some woods just don't cooperate though, due to how they are sawn or internal stresses.
Perhaps Larry Davis or someone can elaborate on this, or prove I'm all wet.
Author:  CarltonM [ Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:42 am ]
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For weighting, you might try some of those solid cement blocks available at the Borg. Home Depot's got 'em for under a buck each.
Author:  PaulB [ Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:30 pm ]
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I use the weights from my home gym - it's not like I was using them for anything else
Author:  robertD [ Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:53 am ]
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Thanks all!

I appreciate all the responses.

Well, sounds to me like stickering is the way to go!

Kim, I know you live in Australia, but, where? Out in Aborigene land or something?
That is HOT!
I’ll bet you could fry an egg on top of your shed!

Rich, your right about sealing the end grain. I guess, I should have thought of that one.
I build residential home for living, and almost all of our construction material comes end sealed.

Don, I think you are making perfect sense.
I got to thinking about all the wood I have stored in my shed.
Which is mostly rough sawn red oak (native), fully planed white pine (native), and white ash.
Actually, these woods are stored outside, but under cover.
All of which are dry stacked for about 2 years now.
The rough sawn red oak is the only one that has cupped, and warped.
The red oak, and white pine were air dried locally.
The white ash, I’m sure was kiln dried, as I had purchased it from North Georgia Hardwoods, Inc. In Cleveland GA.

So, with that in mind, it leads me to several other questions.

But, first, perhaps I should tell you about the wood I have.

All rough;
Tops - Western Red Cedar, Yellow Cedar, and Sitka Spruce.
Fingerboards - Rosewood, and Ebony ( just one of each)

OK, questions;
#1. What’s the best way to sand these tops? (I’m not sure if I got the tool to do it)
#2. To what thickness should I sand before I sticker them?
#3. How far apart should the stickers be?

Maybe I’ve said to much here, if anyone thinks is should start a new topic, please chime in.

Sincerely, Robert

“Some study shows the need for more”
Author:  robertD [ Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:57 am ]
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Paul, I here you can use those old weights for fishing too!

Well, if your fishing for Great Whites, that is!
Author:  Colin S [ Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:30 am ]
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As others have said, I sticker all new wood that comes to me for about a year or so, after that it just gets stacked with a weight on top (old lead sash window weights). Before I build with it I'll take it out of the stack and sticker it again for a month or so. I've never had any issues with warping, maybe due to initial wood selection or to the fact that in the UK we don't get such big variations in the weather.

For stickers I use sawn pieces of junk spruce or off cuts of MDF etc. On backs and tops I use four stickers and on sides five, sometimes six on the very long side sets my main supplier cuts.

If your going to sand wood before stickering make sure to sand both sides, the only time I had a set cup was when I just sanded one side to get a better look at the figure, and it cupped towards the sanded side, but flattened out when put on the concrete floor.

Colin
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:55 am ]
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Hi Robert, yup sticker'em buddy, best thing you could do!

Q1 : Thickness sander or home made drum sander or Wagner safe T planer on a drillpress or if you love planes go for it!

Q2 : I'D SAY 0.140-0.150" THICK

Q3: mine are ~ 4-5" apart

Cheers

Serge
Author:  Mattia Valente [ Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:09 am ]
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I leave rough stock rough; reason is, if it's going to move a little, I'd rather it do it in big board form than in teeny tiny board form. The big stuff needs a trim-down anyway at some point, and I'd rather not do it if I even suspect it might be 'wet' enough to want to shift on me. I do not work wood in any way until I've had it for at least a few weeks.
Author:  robertD [ Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:59 pm ]
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Thanks everyone,

Seems, there are varying opinions to this sticker thing.

I think, I will try both methods.

Sticker some rough, and sticker some sanded.

Serge buddy, thanks for your answers! However, I’m a little stumped on part of your answer to Q1.
Oh, I suppose I could do the research. But, it would be a whole lot more fun to hear you tell me
how to hook up a planer to a drill press!

Have you got pics of this hybrid?

Robert

“The method is not important, only the results”
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:23 pm ]
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Robert, my answer was, i admit, rather confusing but hey, i got French in me Canuck!

I meant that you have a variety of options, the most prefered or ideal would be the one that some call the thickness sander and others call drum sander working with abrasion. Works with a drum and sandpaper and you thin your wood a hair thick at a time. I built my own with the pile of junk that was laying around (read "lack of money" between the lines ). Will post a pic of my monster machine today.

the second option would be the tool called Safe-T-planer that chucks to a drill press but you'd need a very wide drill press i believe and Colin and Mike Spencer use these.

Finally, some use planes to thin their woods, if you're used to work with these, you're good to go!
Author:  robertD [ Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:12 am ]
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Serge, I do like the idea of a planer chucked to a drill press.
Especially, since I have one!
The table on my drill press is about 12" X 14".
I would imagine that’s wide enough. But, if not, I’m sure I could rig a temp table.

Thanks Dude!

Looking forward to monster pics!

Robert
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:35 am ]
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Here ya go Robert buddy:

My Monster thing!



For the Safe-T-Planer, maybe Colin or Mike will show a pic of their set up? I think Stew Mac sell the tool, if not, LMI does.

Cheers
Author:  Colin S [ Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:46 am ]
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Robert, as requested by the great Sergio, my drill press with wagner safeT planer. My table is 36" x 18".



Colin
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:07 am ]
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Thanks Colin!
Author:  robertD [ Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:26 am ]
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Wow!!! Serge,

Did you have to tame that thing down a bit after pulling it from the black lagoon!

Seriously though, it does look to be a powerful machine.

Colin, Thanks for the pic too!

BTW, Grant has just posted a new topic with pics of his safe-T-planer jig.
And, I gotta say, it looks like a pretty nifty tool!

Robert
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:52 am ]
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Robert, it ain't pretty but it sure helps thinning headplate veneers or the woods for the soundbox, heck, everything for the guitar for that matter!

It's got a 1/2 HP MOTOR AND 1/4 turn on the threaded rod and you thin a hair at a time!
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