Official Luthiers Forum!

Hello everyone,

Well things are going quite well on my first build and as allways i have a
couple of questions....

1. I have some Groover tuners for slotted headstocks and they come with
6 metal sleeves (shown below). The question is what am i supposed to do
with them? I can't imagine how they would be fitted into the HS. I have
searched the forum, Groovers site, and the internet to no avail.



2. Also any comments on my first soundboard before i glue it to the back
and sides?




Cheers,

John.JohnB39114.4401851852

John...nice looking work, even for a 10th effort!

On the tuners...you can just install the tuners into their 1/4" holes and you're done. That's the way I've always done it. If you were to use the bushings, you would have to drill the holes larger so that the bushings could be press fit. In that case you would need 12 of them. Why they send 6, I don't know but if you speak to Grover, I'd love to hear what they say. I have a phone # for Grover...(800) 321-0556.

Oh, and BTW...welcome to the forum.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

John, I agree with JJ. Just throw the bushings into your spare parts box and keep going.

Man, looks like you did a beautiful job of bracing that top! What kind of back/side set is it going on?

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Dave Rector
Rector Guitars

OK in the parts bin with the bushings then! I just read a lot of bad stuff
about the Grover Sta-Tite tuners on this forum - i hope they won't break
when i fit them because i quite like the look of 'em.

The top is going on a IRW set which i notched this morning - i'm thinking
of doing very simple outer binding with a wide strip of ebony and a
thinner one of holly.

Thanks both for your help!

take care.

john.

John, I think Grover got all the problems with the Sta-Tite tuners worked out. The problem was related to the type of screw they were using on the gear area. Once they found that they weren't compatible they quit and fixed the problem.

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Dave Rector
Rector Guitars

Thanks Dave that's good to know. I was looking at your site and those
OM's look lovely! I also got a good measure of workshop envy - did i
mention i'm making my guitar in my bedroom?

john.

Wow that looks really nice!!..Can I ask if you inserted your upper and lower face  braces into your X , or just butted them? . I am working on # 2, a steel string this time but plan another slotted HS, I think they look so elegant...also...is it a 12 or 14 fretter at the body joint?

 

Keep posting photos on your progress if you would! I'm a little behind you and yours will work as great inspiration!!   Thanks

Thanks Irwin, It looks better on the photo's than it does in life! But i'm
really pleased with it all the same.

I notched both braces but I had a bit of a problem with the X-brace which
stemmed from me cutting the notches before shaping the braces. This
meant that while i was sanding in the vice one of the braces fractured
slightly at the notch. I didn't notice until i came to glue them and the joint
felt looser than usual. I glued up the crack but it was niggling at me that
the brace might not be up to the job so i made another one. I left all the
faces square around the X so it would be as solid as possible.

It's a 12 fret at the joint neck, the 000 kit from StuMac.

Good luck!

John.

Nice professional looking work John. Bruce





I knew Frank Ford would have a pic of an old Martin laying around and he did. www.frets.com, just drop in to the Museum section and get your fill of great old Martins. Here is a pic of a slotted Martin headstock similar to yours. Grover could save themselves a bit of cash by leaving those out. Dave is right too. I've talked to Grover and they were very apologetic about the mistake they made on the vertical tuner. They were selling like hotcakes when they came out at first and were overwhelmed by the demand and started jury-rigging horizontals to go vertical. Bad call, cost them a bunch on these tuners making it right, I'm sure. And cost them again on luthiers who are unwilling to try them again. But that's the way the old ball bounces and turns out it caused many a luthier to find out how good a Waverly can be. Don't be afraid to use your Grovers. If I remember right, Waverlies are direct replacements and vice versa. Seems like Stew Mac has a reamer specially made for the Waves for final fitting. Nice job.Bruce Dickey39114.5598263889

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com

I myself don't do typical Martin-style scalloped X-bracing, but I do have a question about yours. Just thinking in terms of structural integrity, the two lower braces look like they're scalloped awfully low in the area where the top will belly up under string tension. I honestly don't know if that degree of scalloping in that area is common, so I'm interested to hear what others have to say about it. When I look at your braces there, my first thought is that I think I might want more stiffness in that area so that bellying isn't excessive.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

I've just fitted a set of Grovers myself, but mine looked like this:



If your tuners are like mine they have a tiny lip on the shaft behind the plate that's the same size as the bushing. I think you're supposed to drill the whole lot out, including the inner part (i.e. in the centre of the headstock), with a bit that size and use the bushings in the inner holes only. You push them in with the gizmo that comes in the packet with the tuners.

It seemed like a silly idea to me to have a bigger hole than you really need on the thinnest part of the headstock so I reamed the outside edge of the holes just enough to fit the lip and put the shafts of the tuners straight into the wood on the inside. No problem with that.

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Pete
http://www.petewoodmanguitars.com

Bruce: Thanks for reminding me about the museum at frets.com - there
is so much great stuff on that website it's easy to forget half of it. I based
my design on a headstock that i saw on the web whist trawling around. It
looked very cool indeed and very futuristic looking (i think it was a
german maker who shared their page with a lute maker??? anyhow I lost
the page and never found it again) It's funny to think this design goes
waaaay back.

Todd: I think your headstock looks sweet! And that picture has saved me
some embarrassment - I was about to instal them the wrong way round
("Yeah this is my trademark feature, you wind to un-wind")

Pete: Mine are the same as on Todd's with the bigger brass cog and
straight posts. The bushings have ends which look like they are for a non
slotted tuner. Anyhow i'm happy without them.

[QUOTE=LouisianaGrey] I've just fitted a set of Grovers myself, but mine looked like this:



If your tuners are like mine they have a tiny lip on the shaft behind the plate that's the same size as the bushing. I think you're supposed to drill the whole lot out, including the inner part (i.e. in the centre of the headstock), with a bit that size and use the bushings in the inner holes only. You push them in with the gizmo that comes in the packet with the tuners.

It seemed like a silly idea to me to have a bigger hole than you really need on the thinnest part of the headstock so I reamed the outside edge of the holes just enough to fit the lip and put the shafts of the tuners straight into the wood on the inside. No problem with that. [/QUOTE]

Don't mean to embarrass you, but those are Gotohs.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

Here are two pics of one of my headstocks with the Grovers. No bushings. French polished. I just reamed with a drill bit.

I got several sets of these before they worked out the problem with them. Had to replace at least one on this guitar. Grover sent me replacements, no hassle.

Todd, probably a stupid Q, but where do you get a .251 straight fluted reamer?

Oh, well. Never mind the pics. I still can't upload photos here.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

"Don't mean to embarrass you, but those are Gotohs."

You're absolutely right, Todd (but I expect you knew that already). I was so certain I'd ordered Grovers that I didn't even check. That explains why the bushings are a different shape (doh!). Anyway, I think we're all agreed that the bushings, whatever their shape, are pretty pointless. As a matter of interest Schallers have the same kind of bushings as the Grovers but I've never seen anyone use them either.

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Pete
http://www.petewoodmanguitars.com

[QUOTE=ToddStock] MSC carries reamers - here.

HSS is fine for this application - carbide is available, but overkill.[/QUOTE]

Thanks, Todd.

Now, quit going by the name Todd. That's MY name.    

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/