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Dinged top -- best way to fix?
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=10775		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Michael McBroom [ Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:01 am ]
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This is soooo frustrating. Almost finished with a client's guitar, and I manage to put a nice ding in the WRC top.



It looks worse in person. Fibers are broken, and the ding is pretty deep. I tried steaming it, hoping for some relief, but nada.

I'm afraid that if I just try to fill it with epoxy or CA, then it'll really show.

I was confronted with a similar situation on a spruce-topped guitar. I chiseled out the ding area, tapering the cut, then grafted in a piece from an offcut of the same soundboard. The glue line shows on that guitar, but I'm thinking that with WRC, I might get lucky since it's darker than spruce, and that I might be able to get away with doing something similar.

Any other possibilities?

Best,

Michael
Author:  jfrench [ Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:12 am ]
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Hi Michael,

You might have more luck since its a darker top. In general steaming doesn't work too well when the fibers are broken - but I would keep doing it. Steam it for a bit, let it dry, then come back and do it again. Usually it works just a little at a time. Then I'd strip the FP and sand as much of it out as I could. Its near the edge - apparently ar the waist? You might be able to sacrifice a bit of thickness here without issues. Especially is steaming helps a bit.
Author:  Michael McBroom [ Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:22 am ]
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Thanks for the tips, Joshua.

Yeah, it's at the waist -- on the upper bout.

I steamed the ding for a good half-hour. It swelled up some, but once the water evaporated, it sank down to where it was before. I can try doing several sessions, though. Sure can't hurt at this point.

The ding is probably half as deep as the top thickness. So if I try sanding it out, I'm sure the dished area will show.

Best,

Michael
Author:  JohnAbercrombie [ Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:23 am ]
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If you are going to have to strip some finish anyway, I'd do that first to give the steaming a better chance of working. I agree that several cycles of steaming and drying are likely to work better.
Trying to patch with CA or epoxy- I agree with your estimate, Michael.
John
Author:  John K [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:19 pm ]
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You could try leveling that as nicely as you can with Ca or Z poxy, and then putting a burst on the top to hide the edge. Make it a transparent burst just dark enough to blend the ding in with the rest of the top wood.

Author:  Rod True [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:35 pm ]
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Is this a new customers guitar?

John's suggestion is the best one so far, but this is one of those points where if it's new......

Well you probably know where I'm going with this....


Dang that is nice work though Michael, See what you can do to fix it up, maybe give the client a bit of a discount for a not so new guitar. I don't know what else to say other than replacing the top if it just doesn't work out right.
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 3:52 pm ]
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Sorry to hear about your misfortune Michael, this also happened to me onno 2 and steam worked well for me with a few sessions but i also like John K's approach to fixing this.

Hope you can find the best way to repair this, good luck.

Serge
Author:  Michael McBroom [ Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:35 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for all the advice, guys. Well, I tried Josh and John's suggestion and steamed some more. Absolutely no luck. And I simply wouldn't know where to begin, following Todd's advice. So, I fell back on my original idea of using a graft piece from an offcut of the same soundboard. It came out about as well as can be expected, I guess:



I took the time to match the grain widths and then carefully chiseled out the damaged area, the contoured the insert to match the chiseled out area. Glued, clamped, sanded, and added a few applications of french polish.

At some angles, it doesn't show at all, but at other angles it's noticeable.

Rod, I agree with your assessment. Since this is a new guitar being built for a client, I think I will offer him a choice -- the guitar with this top as is at a discount, or a new top. I'm already behind schedule getting this guitar completed, so I wouldn't be surprised if he goes for the discount.

Best,

Michael
Author:  D Stewart [ Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:51 am ]
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Looks pretty good with the repair. Nice detail work. If it was me, I go for a bit of a discount and be glad I got such a deal on a good product. I bought a hail damaged new car one time for a discount and I don't think anyone but me ever really saw the dings. I hope the buyer is a practical person and doesn't get bent.
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:16 am ]
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Good job on the repair Michael, i could not have done it better myself, hope your customer goes for the discount, let us know how it goes please.
Author:  Rod True [ Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:50 am ]
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Gee, that's a pretty good repair job Michael, better than one I had to do on my #3.

I too hope your customer goes for the discount, it would be a shame really as this is such a minor repair and I bet most people who look at it won't ever see it unless it's pointed out to them.
Author:  MSpencer [ Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:34 pm ]
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Adds character, looks good to me, do all you can and thats all you can do, I bet she sounds good even still

Mike
Author:  Steve Kinnaird [ Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:28 pm ]
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Michael, let me preface my suggestion with a plea that you'll forgive me for this, but: do that same repair on the opposite side, so that the book-matched appearance will throw the eye enough so that it appears to be "something in the wood".

You know I'm kidding, right?   

That's a nice repair, and I wish you the best with your client.

Steve
Author:  Bruce Dickey [ Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:42 am ]
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Great try, it almost worked. The sunburst is still a viable option, or remember that black top of Hesh's. We feel your pain. Good luck on the resolution.

My son put three identical dings on his guitar the other day, red cedar, about two inches below the bridge and left of center. (Can't cross that bridge until I get there, but I was all EARS on this thread,)
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