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repair pricing help
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=10785		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Robbie O'Brien [ Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:15 pm ]
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I need to give a quote to a potential client for replacing a 655mm fretboard on a flamenco guitar. Can anyone help with pricing for this job?
I will need to remove the old board, slot and glue on the new one. It must be tapered on the bass side. Then I need to fret it and do the set up work. The whole time I need to pray there are no finishing issues.
Price suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Author:  crazymanmichael [ Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:05 pm ]
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i wouldn't quote a firm price until i knew what the finish, and the existing action, were.

and a lot of what is considered appropriate is driven by the market in your area.

that being said sight unseen, -$300+ is as close as i would like to go. if you have to make a new nut or saddle then that would be an extra. lacquer would be an extra.

in nyc it would probably be more like $400 or so.

Author:  Robbie O'Brien [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:51 am ]
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anymore repair folks have an opinion on this?
Author:  MarkW [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:20 am ]
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Robbie, I agree with Michael's price range. In fact you may want to lean more toward $400 due to some of the unknowns you will be dealing with. You can always come in below estimate if the job turns out to be easier than anticipated. It much more difficult to explain when exceeding it. Scoring the finish along the fingerboard/neck joint prior to removal will help minimize finish damage.
Author:  David Collins [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:58 am ]
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I'm not sure what your regional rates are but my shop is $80/hour, and I
consider that to be quite reasonable. I would estimate for 8-10 hours, or
$640-$800 +parts. Then if at the end of the job I find I've only logged 7
hours then the customer may be thrilled to find it inder $640.

I prefer to quote the high estimate, and hope to pleasantly surprise the
customer by coming in under. To quote the high end I would definitely
include not only finishing the sides of the fingerboard, but potential
minor chipping along the seam.

Even then, it only takes one unexpected turn (like the neck taking an
unexpected twist while glueing, for one example) to increase your time
significantly. Adding an insurance buffer in addition to your time and
materials in an estimate is always something to consider. That's
something you always need to base upon your own estimate of risk. Parts
and whatever insurance you feel necessary could bring the above
estimate to a $750-$900 range.
Author:  crazymanmichael [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 4:05 am ]
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never ceases to amaze me how rates vary from one part of the country to another.
Author:  David Collins [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:47 am ]
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I'm not terribly familiar with rates from other parts of the country, but it
can be helpful to look at the rates of other trades in your area. I know if I
take my Volkswagen in for service I can expect $70-$80/hr at most
reputable shops. Accounting can easily range from $100-$300+.
Plumbing, electrical, HVAC service, shoe repair, attorneys, counseling, art
frame shops, you name it. When compared to a lot of these trades I think
many luthiers tend to drastically under price their services.

It can easily cost me $400 to have my brakes replaced every three or four
years, yet somehow I'm still only charging about that much for a neck
reset which a guitar may need after thirty. I can find at least a hundred
shops in my area that can do an equally good job on my brakes, yet there
are perhaps two other reputable repair shops within a 60 mile radius that
any knowing musician would trust to reset their neck. Even considering
that, I don't feel I am inflating my prices based on the exclusivity of my
services.

$80/hour may seem like a lot, but for a one man shop I feel it is rather
modest. After time at the counter or the phone, doing paperwork, tool
and shop maintenance and updates I am lucky if over half of my weekly
hours worked are actually billable. Then of that, nearly half can easily go
to expenses, inventory, tooling maintenance and updates, etc. That would
put an theoretical 40 hr/week annual salary at a very modest 40,000. I
really don't know how many shop manage to charge less.

I guess what I'm saying that a refret is like a brake job. I see this as being
more like a new transmission. Don't under value your services.
Author:  John Cavanaugh [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:52 am ]
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For what it's worth, Charlie Hoffman's repair rates are listed here (Charlie's shop is in Minnneapolis, MN). He doesn't list this particular job, but his hourly repair rate is the same as Mr. Collins quotes.
Author:  Louis Freilicher [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:32 am ]
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I agree with David on how this jib should be quoted. In general I like to
aim high and if the job goes smoothly then coming in below the estimate
is OK, I ever like to raise my rate once the job is done.

I agree that most luthiers tend to undercharge for these services, mostly
due to the look on a customers face when you quite $500- $600 to reset
a neck, refret and replace the bridge.   I think this happens less in the
world of violins than guitar and such. I have a good freind who works
repaor in a well-respected violin shop, and most of his customers would
not blink when he quotes $1000+ to reset a neck, make a bridge and
adjust the instrument.

For the fingerboard job I would shoot for $500- $800. If the customer
needs it on the low end, you could offer a minimal touch-up at $500. If
he wants it 100% invisible, $800 +/-. No matter how careful you are you
will have finish issues and other unforeseen obstacles doing this type of
work and must quote these jobs with that in mind.

Louis
Author:  tippie53 [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:13 am ]
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   I agree that it is often better to quote high then charge lower after the job is completed. I agree that this can be one of those jobs that can turn you inside out.
   Getting the old board off and setting the new one and making it look like it wasn't repaired is allmost impossible. The finish work and mating the board to the neck isn't for the beginner. I see a $700 job at least. If you look at it this way
neck reset   $350
Replace fret board   $150
   fret job and set up $200
you can see that the quote may be higher , and if things go well you can allways adjust lower. In PA and in most states a quote may not be exceeded by more than 15%. So once you commit yourself you may be in for an expensive lesson
john hall
Author:  Robbie O'Brien [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:00 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for all the advice and pricing suggestions. The unforeseens in this one are the problem but I will make it work.
Author:  crazymanmichael [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 3:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
first, this is a classical so neck reset is unlikely.

it is all well and good to say that the hourly rate should be, but you have to work in a market. mechanics around here, a small town/rural area going through economic hard times as mill close down, etc., work for $45-50/hr. if your price is unrealistic in the local market then not many folks will darken your door.

it would be good to get the $80 but i don't think it is going to happen here in my lifetime.

i costed the job based on a refret price of $200, fretboard $25, remove and replace 1.5 hr @ $50 = $75, and i didn't include for finish touch up nor nut and saddle work for, as i mentioned, we don't know what the finish is nor what the action is like.












Author:  Shane Neifer [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
Robbie,

I am no repair guy but I recently replaced a BRW ftreboard on a fretless bass for a customer. I priced it quite low but did it more for the experience. He wasn't that happy with the first try so instead of calling me tried to adjust it himself so I got to do it twice! The second time round he was exstatic.

The fret board comes off right easy, in about 7 or 8 minutes. I don't know if you need to remove the frets first or just use an old clothes iron right on top of them. I cut some cardboard to place over the body of the istrument just leaving the fretboard exposed, too proptect the top finish. I got one end of the board loose and then just inserted a putty knife and worked as I removed the board. Then I prepared the board, cleaned off the glue on the neck and then placed the slightly over size board on the neck, mine was fretless so Placement was not critical as I could adjust and trim without the worry of fret placement. For you you could leave a couple of frets off and use small locating pins and then probably make that board nearly complete before you glue it back on. Be sure that you have a caul to keep the neck oriented in the line you want while clamping the new board. I learned that one all on my own .

Anyway, good luck with it!

Shane
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