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| Gluing Head & Tail Block pics needed http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=10829 |
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| Author: | Chris Cordle [ Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:10 am ] |
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Hello friends and holders of a wealth of knowledge! I am currently well into build #2 and am looking for pics of how you glue and clamp the head and tail blocks if using an external mold. On my first build I used the Cumpiano method of using a workboard. This time I bought an external mold from John Hall and because of the clamps that secure the 2 mold halves, I can't figure out how to go about clamping the blocks to the sides. I'm sure there is an easy solution and that's why I come here seeking advise. Thanks, Chris |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:29 am ] |
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Hi Chris, I use a highly technical method utilizing 4 spring clamps 
I draw a center line on the contact side of the block, goop it up with glue and slide it in to place. Place a clamp at the top and bottom, then goop up the other side and repeat 
Sometimes if space allows, Ill sneak in a cam clamp in the middle between the spring clamps. |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:31 am ] |
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Oh, all the while the rims are NOT in a mold of any kind. I belive I got this method off of John Mayes DVDS, lots of great tips on them! |
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| Author: | TonyKarol [ Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:33 am ] |
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Use the mold as the clamping caul for the blocks for sure - having just seen one of Johns molds, I see the issue with the external toggle clamps - I would simply make another U shaped caul that fits over the toggle and touches the mold on either side of it - then you have a large area of wood to clamp to on the outside. Just hold the new outer caul on with some masking tape while you adjust the guitars blocks and clamp for square and all ... |
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| Author: | letseatpaste [ Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:21 am ] |
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This is how I learned to do it in Harry Fleishman's class. I made a caul from a block of mdf, then sliced some kerfs with the table saw. It makes an adjustable clamping caul, it'll conform to the radius at the head and the tail. 
Just make sure to use waxed paper so you don't glue your caul to the guitar or the guitar to the bench. :) |
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| Author: | Dave Rector [ Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:27 am ] |
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I use the same kind of block that Matt uses. I think I saw it over on MIMF a few years ago. Works great! |
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| Author: | Anthony Z [ Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:55 am ] |
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Tony I think you are confusing John Mayes mold with John Hall's from Blues Creek. Though -- great tip for using the Blues Creek mold! Safe travels to Utah! |
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| Author: | TonyKarol [ Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:00 am ] |
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Ah .. correct you are Anthony ... still a good idea though !! |
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| Author: | Colin S [ Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:03 am ] |
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The last one I did I used some specially shortened fibre glass go-bars inside the mould worked like a dream, it's a method I'll be using again. I've always used a go-bar as my end to end stretcher and thought I'd try it to glue the blocks in, I asked Russell his opinion and as he said "try it" I did. Colin Sorry can't post pic |
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| Author: | peterm [ Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:36 am ] |
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I do it like Lance. Glue it with clamps using the center line as a reference and do it outsite of the mold. |
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| Author: | JohnAbercrombie [ Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:18 am ] |
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I agree with Tony that you should improvise a caul to work around the problem with the toggle on the end of your mold. I only clamped sides/blocks out of the mold once and didn't like the process or results. You probably don't have a bandsaw (since you had to buy a mold) so altering your 'purchased technology' isn't a likely option. I don't really see the point of the larger/rectangular molds that seem to be popular these days. My molds are an older style that works well for me. 
There are dowel locating pins to keep the ends aligned. 
This shape is cheap, reasonably light (even built with particle board), and allows clamping most everywhere. BTW, buried somewhere in one of the GAL RedBooks there is a description of a more 'advanced' version of what I use. Cheers John |
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| Author: | burbank [ Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:46 am ] |
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Here's what I did using one of John's molds. url: http://patfosterguitars.com/First%20Build/First%20Build-Page s/Image40.html link I used the cam clamp -- the wooden one -- clamped onto the block and also onto the De-stako clamp on the mold, using just enough pressure to keep the block in place while not bending the De-stako clamp. Between the sides and the mold I used some plywood as a caul that would flex some to follow the curve of the sides, with c-clamps on the block and the caul. The white thing visible in there on the side is just some tape and paper to catch excess glue. |
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| Author: | peterm [ Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:53 am ] |
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[QUOTE=burbank] Here's what I did using one of John's molds. Between the sides and the mold I used some plywood as a caul that would flex some to follow the curve of the sides [/QUOTE] Pat, by placing a caul between the mold and the block aren't you flatening the curve and changing the shape of the guitar? When I do it, I shape the block to conform to the curve of the mold/body shape.... |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Fri Feb 09, 2007 6:06 am ] |
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Chris, i use one of those long turn buckle thingies that we use to clamp the sides against the body mold, just a longer one that will help you clamp both the end and neck blocks at the same time with flat clamping caulssince your blocks are already shaped for the outside curve. Hope i make any sense.
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| Author: | Chris Cordle [ Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:40 am ] |
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Thanks guys for all the tips. As I suspected, there are many ways to skin the cat. (apologies to cat lovers everywhere) I've decided to try Serge's advice on this and try the turnbuckle idea. Oh...and I won't forget the waxpaper between the sides and the mold! 
Thanks again everyone, Chris |
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| Author: | burbank [ Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:47 am ] |
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[QUOTE=peterm Pat, by placing a caul between the mold and the block aren't you flatening the curve and changing the shape of the guitar? When I do it, I shape the block to conform to the curve of the mold/body shape....[/QUOTE] Peter, The caul I use is thinned 1/4" plywood, oriented in the floppy direction, so it conforms to the curve in the form. I'm not completely happy with the method, since it doesnt' allow for very high clamp pressure. Even though it's not a highly stressed joint, I think it needs more pressure because of the relatively large area. For me, the ideal would be a form as thick as the sides are tall to provide high pressure the entire height of the sides. But then I might take the route that others here use, and use a full-height caul and clamp without a mold. |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:00 am ] |
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Chris, i'm honored!
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| Author: | Arnt Rian [ Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:48 am ] |
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I use molds like the one John Abercrombie showed a picture of, and I clamp the block to the sides in the mold. |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:07 am ] |
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I know its a "to each his own" thing here, but I have have done this so many ways, with culls, without, in and out of molds, etc and in the end I found that using 4 spring clamps and a cam clamp for the middle reach is so simple and effective its down right silly! It makes a difficult clamping choir easy. It also makes available the areas were glue is pron to squeeze out for quick and easy clean up. |
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| Author: | Colin S [ Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:57 am ] |
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[QUOTE=LanceK] I know its a "to each his own" thing here, but I have have done this so many ways, with culls, without, in and out of molds, etc and in the end I found that using 4 spring clamps and a cam clamp for the middle reach is so simple and effective its down right silly! It makes a difficult clamping choir easy. It also makes available the areas were glue is pron to squeeze out for quick and easy clean up. [/QUOTE] Lance the glue clean-up thing is one reason that I have done away with clamps altogether and use four shortened fibreglass go-bars inside the mould to glue the blocks on. I figured that I use go-bars for all the other clamping operations, why not for gluing on the blocks. Colin |
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| Author: | JohnAbercrombie [ Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:58 pm ] |
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Terry- Good point about the wax paper or equivalent- I had to loosen some clamps and slide paper in between the mold and sides just a couple of weeks ago, when I forgot. John |
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