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Kinky pics...don’t look.
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=10867		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Dave Rector [ Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:03 am ]
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Sorry for the thread title, I just wanted to get everyone's advice on this.

I bent a set of mac ebony sides the other day and had a problem with a little kinking on the upper bout bend on a dred shaped body. I am trying to figure out the best way to get the kinked spots into a smooth curve. The small facets will likely look much worse when routing for binding.

Anyway, here's a couple of pics of the kinks. BTW, the kinks are only on one edge of each side, they don't go all the way across the side. Any advice?



And another angle.



Thanks in advance for any and all help!
Author:  Bruce Dickey [ Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:30 am ]
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Build an inside form,less a heat blanket. Lay the heat blanket over the form then the side. Take your wife's clothe's iron and iron it onto the heat blanket covered form. A spritz of water might help massage things into position.

It wants more love (heat)x(attention).

And as as always, good luck Dave.....

Author:  Bruce Dickey [ Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:32 am ]
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You might also make a matching form to clamp over the cutaway portion, clamp it and let 'er cool.

NO MO KINKY! It's gotta be smooth.........

Author:  Bruce Dickey [ Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:34 am ]
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Inside form, means inside the actual cutaway, meaning it's actually outside the guitar side. That can be taken two ways.
Author:  Dave Rector [ Sun Feb 11, 2007 10:23 am ]
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Thanks Bruce! That's one of the options I am considering. I also thought of trying to clean it up a little on the old bending iron. Just thought I'd throw it out here and see what other ideas folks have come up with.
Author:  Bruce Dickey [ Sun Feb 11, 2007 12:46 pm ]
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How did you bend it to start with?
Author:  Bruce Dickey [ Sun Feb 11, 2007 12:49 pm ]
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Dave, did I misinterpret the photos? In your description you call it the upper bout. I'll be darned but the pics to me looked like a cutaway. Sorry, maybe someone else will chime in? IF this is just the upper bout of a dred, I'd try the hot pipe and of course, a bit of spritz.....
Author:  Dave Rector [ Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:38 pm ]
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Yeah Bruce, it's the upper bout curve. I bent it on the Fox bender like I always do. I think the kink is due to a little gnarly grain in that spot on the sides due to the fact that it's in the exact same place on both sides.
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Mon Feb 12, 2007 4:41 am ]
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That was kinky all right!

Dave, Bruce's advice sounds really good, let us know how it goes please.

Good luck bro!
Author:  Dave Rector [ Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:43 am ]
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Thanks Serge! And thanks for the bump too.
Author:  Alain Desforges [ Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:04 am ]
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Dave, a friend of mine had kinks like that on his guitar.... Yeah.. that's right, a friend...

What I did... I mean, what my friend did was just fire up the old hot pipe. He then wetted down the area and worked the whole area on the pipe, rubbing back and forth for about 3-4 inches length. Cleans up like a dream and you could never tell it even happened...

My friend... Hmmm... Maybe he'll wise up some day and start using a fox-type bender instead of using a pipe...
Author:  Dave Rector [ Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:20 am ]
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Thanks Alain! I tried working it on the bending iron all morning and wasn't able to get the kink out. It straightened out pretty well along the edge and about 1/4" in from that, but there is a patch about 1" wide behind that that still will not flatten out.

I'm thinking about calling the Zootman and seeing if he has another set of sides I can buy. I think I could sand out the irregularities but the side would get pretty thin in that area.
Author:  Colin S [ Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:42 am ]
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Dave I had this happen on a set of mahogany a couple of years ago I just wet the area and clamped it with a piece of hardboard (fibreboard) each side using smallish spring clamps. The fibreboard took on the natural curve and I just left it to dry. Most of the kinks came out and I found that when I glued the linings in that took care of it, with just a little bit of sanding on the outside. Don't give up on those sides just yet, almost all things are recoverable. Maybe a carved solid lining in that part?

Colin
Author:  Dave Rector [ Mon Feb 12, 2007 10:19 am ]
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Thanks Colin! I was going to try the method Bruce mentioned above using an inside and outside caul along with a heat blanket and see what happens. Maybe I can do the same thing with the fiberboard and a blanket.

I think I can just put the side in my outside mold and place a SS slat and the blanket on the inside along with the piece of fiberboard. I'll let you know if I'm successful.
Author:  John Mayes [ Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:46 am ]
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depending on how bad the kink is (hard to tell from the photo) you may
be able to sand it out... just another thought, but be sure not to let the side
get thinner than ...oh .060 or so.
Author:  Michael Lloyd [ Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:56 am ]
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Hi Dave,

How thick are your sides?

I would try and straighten them in that area and possible thin them to 2 mm then try again. If you already at 2mm then like above more water and lots of heat on the bending iron.

Good luck and take it slow.
Author:  LarryH [ Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:57 pm ]
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Dave, as a rookie I am very interested in how you solve this problem. Keep us posted.

Larry
Author:  AStass [ Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:15 pm ]
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Hi Dave. I would try to get the bend as close as you can on the "hot pipe", then, while it's still hot, spritz it, get ti into the mold while wet, and clamp it to the mold. Alan.
Author:  AStass [ Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:17 pm ]
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Oh, by the way, that's pretty kinky stuff to be posting. I thought I was on a porn site or something.
Author:  Greg [ Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:50 pm ]
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I agree. Get the kinky part with a hot pipe. I usually use a bender a la fox but work on any noncompliant bits witha pipe bender.
Author:  Dave Rector [ Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:53 am ]
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Well, I took Bruces advice and made a caul that matched the inside curve minus the thickness of a heat blanket. Then I put the side into my mold, layed the heat blanket on it and clamped the caul over that. I heated it up to about 300 degrees and let it cool back down, then repeated it again.

So far I have reduced the amount of buckling by about 30 or 40 percent. I will try again today and see if it gets any better.
Author:  JJ Donohue [ Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:23 am ]
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Dave...got any Super Soft 2? This might help to relax the fibers in the kinky area just enough to get them to lay down when you work the area. Give it a spritz, let it dry for a few hours, wet the area then bend on the Fox or pipe. It sure wouldn't hurt.
Author:  slackkeymike [ Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:52 pm ]
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Its Valentines Day (night) and I see this thread title. I'm thinking...naw...no way. Way.

Mike
Author:  AStass [ Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:32 pm ]
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Yep, get her hot and wet, stick her in the mold, jamb a bunch of sticks in her to hold her against the mold, glue on the top, and flip her over! Yep. Alan.
Author:  CarltonM [ Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:30 am ]
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Careful Alan, my friend. I know it's difficult, but innuendo is something we try to avoid here, even though it's funny to many of us. It's an indistinct line we have to avoid crossing, so it's best to err on the side of caution.

I'm not picking on you here, because you're not the first to receive a notice of this sort, nor will you be the last. This forum has members (and potential members) of all sorts and sensibilities, and we don't want to alienate any of them.

Thanks!!!
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