Official Luthiers Forum!

...well I guess that says it all!

I do type fast and sometimes misspell or even miss a whole word which leaves my comments sounding pretty illiterate or stupid.

I only read the post about the edit button yesterday and understand the point of removing it (not really) but as for MY personal opinion I think its pretty lame....

Sorry about the post but I'm a bit frustrated about the whole thing.

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

It could be worse you know...... just think about it......


However, I agree Perte

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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

I did know that it was missing, I thought it was part of the hacker attack...

I miss my buttons. What's the world coming to

[QUOTE=peterm]and understand the point of removing it (not really) but as for MY personal opinion I think its pretty lame....[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I see your point, then you can rethink comments like these.    

Everytime you think that "we" did something to "you" push on that a little harder and ask why. If some people were not behaving like children then this wouldn't be necessary. We certainly aren't removing privledges just to be mean.   

I recognize this impacts the whole group, but there is no simple solution.

If you have an answer I am all ears...

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Brock...Is it possible to allow editing for a short period of time after posting? I'll bet we realize the need to edit within 15 minutes of posting. And if any individual grossly abuses the feature, you have the option to warn ...then temporarily suspend ...then ban them from the forum. Why should the entire membership be inconvenienced because of the occasional abuser?

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

Brock, no offense to you or anyone here.... as a matter of fact I make it a point to NEVER intencionally offend anyone and if I do/did I apologize!

I am a member of a few forums and some of them have substancially many more members than this one. I am however able to edit my post at all of them.

I did believe however that this forum was different from the others, it was built on character, good people,trust and people genuinly trying to help each other.... I still feel this way about the OLF. However something is changing...

You did mention that members would go back and edit past posts and that was one of the reasons to do it...

Whats changing? What sensitive data is beeing edited after the post is made? Is it neccessary? Is it a problem? Who's doing it? If someone is doing something wrong or breaking the rules, maybe that person doesn't belong here?
There has to be a better way....


Lets not remove the streets just because someone is speeding...

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

I've edited my share of posts, but never for anything I couldn't have caught with the "preview post" function.

If you can't edit your posts - deal with it, use "preview post". If you can't upload pictures, deal with it - use your own server. Why bother Lance and Brock with this stuff? They've provided a great forum for us. Lets respect their decision to delete the edit button. Lets give them as much time as they care to take to get the picture functions back.

And lets leave the selfishness at the door and be gracious of our hosts. They deal with much more than we know about.

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Instagram: @jfrenchluthier
Web: https://www.jfrenchguitars.com/

[QUOTE=peterm] ...as a matter of fact I make it a point to NEVER intencionally offend anyone and if I do/did I apologize![/QUOTE]
Good grief, what a jerk!!!!!





I'm KIDDING!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah, I'd vote for a limited edit time, but obviously the current software is tired and needs to go to a nice cyber retirement home, which I understand is in the works. I'll be patient.

In a previous post Brock explained that the setup is all or nothing. I used to run a small BBS before the www took over and know how much work goes into a forum like this. I am very thank full for all the effort that Lance and Brock put in and love the interaction here. There are other ways to keep posts the way they should be. Number one is to go slow and reread before you post. second you an always post again if you really feel the need to clarify or explain

My .02 worth

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Zac

Anchorage Alaska

Finshed my 1st! See #1 here

I have no idea who the offenders are nor even what there offenses might have been but it must have been pretty serious for it to justify eliminating the edit feature. I agree that the forum is special and we get by quite nicely with little policing. What better way to promote forum values we cherish than to reprimand the offenders and thereby encourage good behavior. Lance and Brock don't always have to be the enforcers either. Many of us can privately PM folks and deal with issues off line in order to make such points...sort of self-imposed hall monitors.

Failing to do that and "punishing" the entire membership just doesn't make sense. I'd rather see one offender who gets privately reprimended get pissed off and leave than to let that offender off the hook and impose a sanction on the 99% who don't abuse the feature. This is just common sense to me...what am I missing?

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

[QUOTE=jfrench] Why bother Lance and Brock with this stuff? They've provided a great forum for us.

And lets leave the selfishness at the door and be gracious of our hosts.[/QUOTE]

Joshua, let me make sure you know that I am very thankful of what Brock and Lance have done. I have a very good relantionship with both of them and this post is not an attack on them....

A forum is a group of people that help each other through many ways and its by no means a one sided venture.
Brock and Lance are doing a great job but this forum is a sponsored forum not a charitable foundation. I am a paid member as well as a highly contributor to the sponsors of this forum. As a matter of fact with the exception of tuners, ALL my supplies come from sponsors here. I've been a member for 2 years and paid my dues for both. Its not that I am beeing selfish....

So, all I am doing is expressing my concerns and voicing my opinion for what I feel is better and easier.

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

[QUOTE=JJ Donohue] Many of us can privately PM folks and deal with issues off line in order to make such points...sort of self-imposed hall monitors.[/QUOTE]
Careful, my friend. At least one important contributor was apparently driven away by such action. If someone offends on a public forum, I think it's proper to alert him publicly, in a civil manner. If you can't do that with non-inflamatory prose, just keep it to yourself.

Good point, Carlton. I think each situation requires good judgement.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

[QUOTE=JJ Donohue] Brock...Is it possible to allow editing for a short period of time after posting? I'll bet we realize the need to edit within 15 minutes of posting. And if any individual grossly abuses the feature, you have the option to warn ...then temporarily suspend ...then ban them from the forum. Why should the entire membership be inconvenienced because of the occasional abuser? [/QUOTE]

Yeah, that is a great idea. I wish our software had an option like that.

Maybe in a future version. I can put in a request to the authors, but it still leaves us with this current pickle.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

I certainly think it's possible for us all to agree that with some sort of change coming, we can live with this little pickle and just keep the edit button off line.

I don't like it either, but as we grow, things always change. I can still remember Lance getting jazzed about nearing 300 members and now we are nearing 1300.

I don't think it's wrong to express our opinions and displeasures, heck we'd all just be lemmings if we didn't.

Brock & Lance, thanks for giving us the OLF. It's still the best guitar makers forum on the Net.

_________________
My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

[QUOTE=JJ Donohue] I have no idea who the offenders are nor even what there offenses might have been but it must have been pretty serious for it to justify eliminating the edit feature. I agree that the forum is special and we get by quite nicely with little policing. What better way to promote forum values we cherish than to reprimand the offenders and thereby encourage good behavior. Lance and Brock don't always have to be the enforcers either. Many of us can privately PM folks and deal with issues off line in order to make such points...sort of self-imposed hall monitors.

Failing to do that and "punishing" the entire membership just doesn't make sense. I'd rather see one offender who gets privately reprimended get pissed off and leave than to let that offender off the hook and impose a sanction on the 99% who don't abuse the feature. This is just common sense to me...what am I missing?[/QUOTE]


I *** REALLY *** do not want to get into the specifics of this, but let's just hit the high points. There have been an increasing number of people who think it is cute to go into the old messages and remove them entirely, drastically alter them (aka change them to periods), or change the text to say things that are pretty rude. They feel as if they can do this with immunity because the posts are old and nobody is looking.

Couple that with the fact that the words "defamation" and "libel" have been flying around in the back channel and you have all the ingredients you need to bake a cake.

Listen, Lance and I provide this forum as a courtesy. We gain as much from this community as anyone, but this is nonsense that we really do not need. If putting an end to the edit button is necessary to preserve the good of the community then that is what we will do.

I fully recognize that this is the devient actions of a few causing harm to the many, but you too must realize that as a community grows the ways things work when it was small may not work when it is larger. I think that is what we are experiencing.

I think we are about ready to transform ourselves into the third iteration of this community. We clearly need a software upgrade, both for speed and features, and we need to more formally define the acceptable conduct of our members. We remain true to our principles, but we need to make a few mid course corrections with respect to how things work on a day to day basis.

If we can find a way to get this edit feature going in future software then I am all for it, but after a certain period of time this will freeze and the delete button will also be disabled.

I am sorry for the inconvenience, but I think the purpose of this is to encourage everyone to be a little more cautious about what they say... especially before they take a cheap shot at someone.

I am all for honest conversation and debate. Disagreement on intellectual terms is great and can lead to growth, but do it in a civil professional manner.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Brock...Thanks for the explanation. The minority unfortunately often has more influence in creating change than the majority.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

[QUOTE=CarltonM] [QUOTE=peterm] ...as a matter of fact I make it a point to NEVER intencionally offend anyone and if I do/did I apologize![/QUOTE]
Good grief, what a jerk!!!!![/QUOTE]

Carlton, that was mean!

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

Folks,

I think that the issue here stems from certain individuals who, FOR WHAT EVER REASON, have in the past spat the dummy over a disagreement they have had here on the forum and as a result have taken the rather childish attitude of taking their ball and going home.

What I am saying is that they have allowed themselves to become so controlled and consumed by their own anger that they have systematically gone through and deleted any and all posted they have ever made. They take this rather vindictive course of action in a conscious effort to try and destroy the context of any threads in which they have ever participated whilst here at the OLF.

This display of foot stamping and tantrum throwing has uncovered a few things for us all to contemplate. Firstly it has openly, and I am certain that in most cases, quite embarrassingly, revealed to the whole OLF community the total lack of self control, maturity and consideration that these people can muster when the pressure is on. But more unfortunately for the rest of us, it has also shown the need and justified the actions that the administrators have been FORCED to take and has made us all pay in the way that is now before us.

I for one look forward to a time, hopefully in the not too distant future, when the OLF has new software which will load pages just as fast as any other site that I visit on the Internet. That will accept uploaded files to an archival server so that anyone searching those archives in the future will receive benefit for their effort and validate the efforts of those who took the time to make their knowledge available. And will also give us a time limited editing capabilities that will once and FOR ALL resolve this issue.

Until then, I will wait patiently only shaking my head from time to time in bemusement at how the unthinking and immature few can allow their pettiness to affect all those around them, even those with whom not only have they never had issue, but in many cases they call friends.

Cheers all.

Kim

There we go again, I start to type a post, and by the time I get around to actually posting my thought, someone else has already rounded up the issue and gone home...must learn to grunt in disaproval...just grunt....grunt, grunt

Cheers

Kim

I think I have discovered the true root cause of this problem. The colour of the background. I mean c'mon! Some kind of baby poo greeny-brown colour?      Sheesh!

I think we need a nice calming blue background. That way we'll all be too chilled out to be nasty.

I think Hesh is right. I've never run across a forum as friendly as this one. It makes me try to be a better, more considerate, and more constructive member of the forum. That's not to say I haven't made the odd mistake in the short time I've been here... But I'm getting better.

At the end of the day, I'd rather have the OLF over the edit button.

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If God had wanted us to drink beer, he would have given us stomaches.

[quote]Some kind of baby poo greeny-brown colour?      Sheesh! [/quote]

   It's called fecal breen!! Actually, a more soothing color is pink, that's why they paint prison waiting rooms that way, or at least that's what Hesh told me!

    As a person that has said at least his share of stupid things on this forum, I really miss my edit button. But even the implication that Brock or Lance would of did this in mean spirit or thoughtless is kind of amusing.

   I liked being able to go back after a while and change something because of unintended meanings now I'll just have change... Everybody repeat after me

Think then Post!
Think then Post!
Think then Post!

Man I hope I can remember that!

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Billy Dean Thomas
Covina, CA

"Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur."
(Many fear their reputation, few their conscience)