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New Rosette in working on --
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=10907		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  LanceK [ Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:16 am ]
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Here is my most current project. Its a OMFS made of Cocobolo and a master grade LS Redwood Top. My customer wanted some special Brazilian Rosewood for the Bridge, headstock overlay and Rosette. Well, knowing what I know about one "Don Williams" and his stash. I began prodding, and nagging, which quickly turned to begging and pleading In the end though, I managed to get a rosette, headstock overlay (both book matched pieces and a sweet bridge blank, ALL CUT from the same piece of wood and ALL having a sapwood features.

Here is the rosette, done but not leveled. This was also the first one I did using my new Bishop Cochran Plunge router with the PC 310. It cut the wood like a hot razor through butter! I will never use a dremal again. All the tell tail signs of the under powered dremel (i.e. fuzzy cut at the 2 o'clock and 8 o'clock areas were GONE! The cut is CLEAN!

The rings are LMIs b/w/b with a .010 black strip in the middle to fatten up the center black.

Author:  LanceK [ Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:19 am ]
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Oh, another cool feature of the Cochran base, I was able to plunge the bit about .020, then make a cut, and drop it once again for a total depth of .050. So the initial cut was just a surface cut, making it super clean.
I really cant say enough about this base. It just plain rocks!
Author:  Dave Rector [ Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:50 am ]
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Very nice rosette Lance!

I can't believe someone finally pried some of that rosewood out of the Don's hands.
Author:  Dave White [ Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:56 am ]
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Lance.

That looks really nice. I'm with you on Dremels and moved to a lam trimmer for rosettes a long time ago - but not the Rolls Royce system you have. I'm looking forward to seeing more as your creative juices flow
Author:  JJ Donohue [ Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:12 am ]
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Lance...looks great! I've used the Dremel for the last time as well and am building the Sylvan/Tony/Rod jig for my PC lam trimmer. While I won't have the plunge feature as does the Cochran jig, I was hoping to make .050" deep cuts in one pass. Is there a difference in the quality of the edge when you go with the .020" surface cut as opposed to going to .050" in one step?
Author:  Chris Cordle [ Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:35 am ]
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Looks great Lance. The bit of sapwood is a nice touch.
Author:  LanceK [ Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:37 am ]
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JJ, I think .050 is to much to take regardless of the cutter. I have always made multiple passes. First one is just to break the skin so to speak, that gets a nice clean cut on the surface fibers. Then I start to dig. The power and speed of the lam trimmer is so strong that you could easily take .050 in one pass, I just wouldn't do it. But maybe that's me
Author:  Dave Anderson [ Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:51 am ]
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Very nice and elegant rosette Lance.
I sure am envious of that Cochran base of yours!
I'm stuck with my measly Dremel for now    
Author:  LanceK [ Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:56 am ]
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Dave,
I've done every rosette up to this one with a dremel and a Stewmac router base. If your bit is sharp, and you go slow, I'm sure you know it can be very effective.
If you ever consider a lam trimmer, you (can) alter your stewmac trimmer to fit one (that is if your using a stewmac circle cutter?).

I think it was Matt Gage that did that? maybe he'll chime in...
Author:  jfrench [ Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:35 am ]
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Lance - great work. I've got to get one of those router bases.

What are you using for router bits?
Author:  LanceK [ Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:51 am ]
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Josh,
I am using the 3/32nds 1/4" shank bit from LMI.
I am on the hunt though for smaller 1/4" shank bits.
Author:  Don Williams [ Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:54 am ]
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Of course, redwood is about the easiest wood to rout a rosette into. It cuts very clean from my experiences...
Author:  John Mayes [ Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:14 am ]
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that is very pretty lance. You do nice work fella! I'm going to have to make
the haul over to your place sometime this year since I'll be vastly closer!

John
Author:  Andy Zimmerman [ Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:24 am ]
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Very sweet
Author:  peterm [ Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:52 am ]
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Looks great and is very clean.
Author:  John Elshaw [ Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:12 am ]
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[QUOTE=JJ Donohue] Is there a difference in the quality of the edge when you go with the .020" surface cut as opposed to going to .050" in one step?[/QUOTE]

JJ, I've been able to get great results going .050" all at once, but I do my channels a little different. Since I usually make classicals, I only have to worry about one wide channel. I normally go right to depth and make a quick channel in the middle, then I make it wider/narrower a little at a time until I'm finished. Taking off only a sliver wider each pass makes very clean edges. I'm not sure you could do this if you needed to make very narrow channels that were only as wide as your bit.

John
Author:  Steve Kinnaird [ Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:29 am ]
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Lance,
I've been using the Dremel and Dremel base for ever, and the description of your rig is the first time I've been tempted to rethink my system.

Could you post a photo of the set-up?
Does it come with circle cutting ability, or is that something done afterwards? (After market)

Thanks!
Oh--and I really like your rosette.

Steve
Author:  LanceK [ Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:38 am ]
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Sure Steve, here it is.

You can buy this router base at Allied.


The extra piece is a additional small circle cutting attachment.


Here you can see it mounts on the inside, bringing the center pin closer to the bit.








Hope this helps.

Author:  LarryH [ Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:05 am ]
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Hey Lance, I have a perhaps obvious question but do you cut the wooden section first with the circle cutter? Out of a whole piece of BRW? Then fit the purfling and size the final routes in the top?

I know this may seem a bit lame but on my first rosette I hand shaped the radius of each piece to fit. Never even though of using the circle cutter - WOW was that lot of work.
Author:  Steve Kinnaird [ Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:08 am ]
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You bet it does!
Obviously a well-thought out tool. Pretty to boot!
However--are you locked in to a PC lam trimmer, or will other brands work?

Thanks mucho, Lance.

Steve
Author:  LanceK [ Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:18 am ]
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Larry, yes I cut the wood ring first, then move to the top, I cut the biggest section out first then test fit a bunch of times, moving closer to the final size, "micro inching up on it" if you will

Steve, the Bishop Cochran router is only made for the Dremel,Foredom or the PC 310.
Go HERE for info.

You can pick up a 310 HERE for 159.00 and free shipping. That's a heck of a deal!

Author:  Steve Kinnaird [ Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:25 am ]
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Thanks, Lance!

Steve
Author:  Alain Desforges [ Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:31 am ]
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Lance that looks outstanding! I really love the sap wood... I'am a real sucker for that!

That is going to be killer under finish! And that circle jig... Well, that's just plain 'ol SEXY!   

JJ, on my last rosette (wenge) I borrowed Sergio's awesome circle cutting jig that brother Rod had made for him... (What a fantastic piece of equipment!) That micro-adjustment makes a world of difference.

I just took the full cut (about .05) in one pass using a solid carbide shear face plunge cutting bit that I got at Ridge Carbide tools. The cleanest, crispest cutting bit I've ever used! You can have a look here. There rates are reasonable and the service was top notch and the delivey expedient.

Author:  Anthony Z [ Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:07 am ]
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Alain thanks for the link for Ridge Carbide tools. I am always on the look out for a source of 1/8" shaft downcut spiral bits.
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