Official Luthiers Forum!

Following the recommendation of an OLFer (sorry, I forget the name and the thread..), I headed down to the local hobby store today and bought some accelerator in an aerosol can.
I highly recommend the product I found: ZipKicker mfg by Pacer Technology. The same liquid is also available in 'bulk' - ie non-aerosol- as well.

The unexpected benefit from this product is that the blushing and white deposits I was experiencing with the 'SprayNCure' from SatelliteCity are not produced with ZipKicker. The CA cures to a completely transparent glassy consistency. In addition the ZipKicker is faster-acting. I've sprayed both before and after CA application.

I'm still using the 'HotStuff' CA from SatelliteCity so the difference is definitely in the accelerator.

No doubt other combos of CA and accelerator will have different results as well.

John

John,
I was touting the benefits of the aerosol in the can in a previous post. I'm glad you found it to work just as well as I do. Mine is from rockler, FWIW. I love it. Almost looks like a big fat drop of crystal clear finish.
Take care.
-j.

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“If God dwells inside us like some people say, I sure hope He likes enchiladas, because that's what He's getting”
-jack handy

[QUOTE=j.Brown] John,
I was touting the benefits of the aerosol in the can in a previous post. I'm glad you found it to work just as well as I do. Mine is from rockler, FWIW. I love it. Almost looks like a big fat drop of crystal clear finish.
Take care.
-j.[/QUOTE]

As opposed to the aerosol in the plastic spray bottle? Um, anyway, I meant to say aerosol accelerator.

-j.

_________________
“If God dwells inside us like some people say, I sure hope He likes enchiladas, because that's what He's getting”
-jack handy

I read somewhere that if you use accelerator you loose some strength.True?

I think ZipKicker is what Taylor uses for their guitars. I may have seen it in one of the videos...

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

There are three common bases for accelerator - alchohol, acetone, and
naptha. Acetone is less common thank goodness, although I learned of
it's existance when we purchased a gallon from Aaron Alpha only to
watch it eat in to any finish. The naptha (or some similar petrol by-
product) base is most common in hardware store accelerators, and I've
never liked how long it stays wet and leaves an greazy oily film for while.

I still like the alchohol based stuff, and after trying a great deal of them
Satellite City (mild) is still my favorite. Somehow I've still never tried
ZipKicker, and from what you say it sounds appealing. I will definitely put
it on my list.

And Bob, yes accelerator does cause a bit of loss in strength, however
most CA applications aren't used in high stress areas. If I want either a
strong or very clear curing I still just use moisture by getting up close and
breathing on it. It is not as fast as accelerators and I usually have to set it
aside to cure for a while before filing or sanding, but it cures hard and
clearer than I've been able to get with accelerators thus far. I look forward
to trying the ZipKicker.

_________________
Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

[QUOTE=j.Brown] John,
I was touting the benefits of the aerosol in the can in a previous post. I'm glad you found it to work just as well as I do. Mine is from rockler, FWIW. I love it. Almost looks like a big fat drop of crystal clear finish.
Take care.
-j.[/QUOTE]
Thanks, '-j'.
Sorry I'd lost your original post and couldn't give you credit for the suggestion.

Another benefit of the ZipKicker to my mind is that it doesn't have the very strong solvent smell of the SatelliteCity product.
I have found that if you really overdo it- with a heavy spray on top of CA, you can get a small amount of white deposit- so it is not 'idiot-proof'. I generally spray the accelerator first and let it evaporate (as per instructions) before using CA.
I was binding some headstocks yesterday (wood binding) and it came in handy. I'm sure titebond would be stronger, but it is really a pain organizing effective clamping on curved pieces, etc.

Cheers

John


Cheers

From an older LMI handbook,"Tensile strength of the joint for CA on correctly applied and fitted materials is approximately 4500 to 5000lbs. psi. (ATSM test). Aliphatic resin glue, (carpenters yellow, titebond) by comparison, has a rating of 2800 lbs. psi."

I haven't seen any studies regarding weakened joint strength when using accellerants, but would like to read one if it's available.

I have used CA as a quick finish repair on less expensive instruments, and even finished an electric headstock after being inlaid on a "rush" job.

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Paul Bordeaux
http://www.bordeauxinlay.com

[QUOTE=David Collins]...And Bob, yes accelerator does cause a bit of loss in strength,...
[/QUOTE]
This is puzzling. I hear this both ways.
1, that accelerator is the only way to truly "Cure" CA, and 2, that accelerator weakens the joint. I've never heard or read anywhere that someone doesn't think that it makes a difference. I think thats pretty strange.
-j.

_________________
“If God dwells inside us like some people say, I sure hope He likes enchiladas, because that's what He's getting”
-jack handy

Where are you guys buying this stuff from? I checked there website and ther wasn't an order form. They (pacer) seemed to have some real advanced CA that might be worth buying as well. Anyone try any of the advanced stuff?

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Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

Dave-
I'm lucky to live in a small city which still has a 'hobby' shop to cater to the model aircraft/model train, etc crowd.
They've got a whole shelf of various CA products plus a bunch of epoxies in small containers, etc. It's also a great place for buying small tubing, X-Acto saws, etc. I try to give them business when I can- it's great to have a place like that nearby on a Sat afternoon when you 'need' something....

LeeValley carries the SatelliteCity products, but I'm not sure if there aren't shipping restrictions to the US.

Hopefully, somebody will post a link to the 'mother of all hobby shops' online in the US ......

Cheers
John

I too have been happy with Pacer's Zip Kicker. It accelerates faster and evaporates slower than another brand I've tried, which I think is called something like "NSF Mild". That one took a long time to set the CA up, and would evaporate off my applicator before I had touched it to the work. BTW, I never use the aerosol pump. I dip a length of something into the bottle and then use it to put a drop where I want it. The only downside of this is what can happen to an open bottle. Which just did last week . .

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Some things about CA...

If your local hobby store carries the "Bob Smith"-made product, buy it with confidence. I've read a few reviews and comments that said it's very high-quality stuff. Of course I suppose it depends on how quickly your local store turns over their stock.

I read an interview in a woodworking magazine (wish I could remember which one) with the head of the "Hot Stuff" company. He said that old CA doesn't loose its bonding capabilities, just its fast drying time. I tried some old CA to test it out, and sure enough, it didn't want to dry. I tried again, this time prepping the area with accelerator, and it dried pretty quickly. The bond seemed just as good as with the fresh product. I wouldn't trust it with bindings or any structural application, but for gluing wood slivers, etc., it seems that the old stuff may be useful for longer than we thought.

If you've been frustrated with the shotgun approach of accelerator spray bottles, or the tediousness and odor of dipping Q-Tips into the bottle, I saw a useful tip, I think in one of Stew-Mac's Trade Secrets books, to get better control. Take a small plastic bottle with a standard applicator tip, and put a piece of cellulose sponge in it. Pour in enough accerator to soak the sponge, but no more than that. When you have a small area that needs accelerator, you can then uncap the tip of the bottle and hit the spot with accelerator fumes. It apparently works!

Thanks for the cool tip Carlton! I'll have to try out that sponge in the bottle trick.

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Dave Rector
Rector Guitars