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Wenge surprise
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=11107		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  James Ringelspaugh [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:43 am ]
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During his class, Somogyi mentioned a few woods he though compared favorably with brazillian rosewood (tonally at least). Wenge was one of them. His apprentice Ray was just completing a wenge guitar, which showcased just how nice a wood it can be aesthetically as well. So on the trip back home I was getting pretty excited about a piece of perfectly vertically grained wenge I've had seasoning in my woodshed for the past couple of years. I bought it with electric or bass neck material in mind, but after the class I decided I would use it for an acoustic back and side set.

Well finally this weekend I pulled it out and milled a piece to length. To my surprise I saw this 'cloud' of yellow in the end-grain near the edge of the board:



As I slice away to make the back and sides, I realize the 'cloud' is kind of like stray sapwood, but slightly darker. It's very odd. What's really crazy is that it was completely hidden in the original board. At first I was upset because I wanted a nice uniform board for this particular instrument, but by the time I had resawn the board into back and sides I decided to embrace the sapwood and make it part of the design:



After joining the back and tapping around a bit, I can see why some people really like this wood for guitars: the tap tone is crystal clear and rings forever. I've never heard a tap sustain for so long. What a nice surprise!
Author:  Steve Kinnaird [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:59 am ]
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Lex, if that were mine, I'd count my self blessed.
I like abberations and irregularities in wood.
Don't get me wrong, I also like the "perfect" stuff, but what you pictured is truly interesting.
I would certainly use it.

Steve
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:10 am ]
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It's not sapwood. For some period of years the sapwood did not pigment normally when it changed to heartwood. I would guess it was something present in the soil, but that's just a guess.

I think it's a visual plus. Quartersawn wenge is very uniform looking unless you get really close to it.

Wenge has fine acoustic potential, but I do not like building with it, because of it's splittiness, splinteriness, and humongous pores.
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:13 am ]
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Although [boy, I wish we could edit] I just noticed that the light color is only inside the board. That suggests that the color in that area was lost during kilning. There still would be some difference in the chemical makeup of the wood during a period of the tree's growth.

I've seen similar light areas, that are only on the inside of a kiln-dried board, in Honduras rosewood.
Author:  James Ringelspaugh [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:34 am ]
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Ah, if the light area oxidized to dark in the kiln, that would explain why it was completely hidden in the board when I bought it. Oh well, I guess it will probably darken over time.
Author:  SteveCourtright [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:36 am ]
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I really hope it is not some kind of rot! Unfortunately for me, I have seen something like this in some 3" cherry I have had for a decade. I think it was not stickered up properly and was eaten up from the inside. The cherry was crumbly where discolored.

Tell me that this is not what is happening with your lovely Wenge!!!
Author:  James Ringelspaugh [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:43 am ]
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Also I agree about the splintery nature of this wood... it is something like working with a porcupine who thinks your hand is a pincushion at every step. It pretty much has zero lateral stiffness as well, so I would expect it to split down the grain with pretty much no effort.
Author:  James Ringelspaugh [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:45 am ]
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^^ It does not appear to be rotten or weaker than the surrounding wood, just a different color.
Author:  Alain Desforges [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:22 am ]
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I'm using Wenge at the moment too... It'll throw splinters at you out of spite! Cracks if you look at it funny and doesn't have pores so much as craters... It does ring though and does seem very dense...

Your specimen looks super cool though...
Author:  Bob Long [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:22 am ]
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Lex, I really like the look of the wenge. But.... I gotta ask... Why didn't
you lay up the back so the sapwood was in the center?   

Long
Author:  TonyKarol [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:09 am ]
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I am with Bob .. I think you laid the pieces out in the wrong order - where is the bookmatch to the far right piece (assuming of course you want a bookmatched back look) ?? - the big sap line should go in the middle, then all the mated pieces should mirror match off that centre line IMO. for example, if you cut 4 pieces, its not always true that you would glue them up 1,2,3,4 - you might get a better look with 1,3,2,4 or 3,1,2,4 - this last one is usually the case when I do a 4 pc braz headstock, its the only way to get the craziness to look like one piece (tried to upload, but still cant ...)

Author:  peterm [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:15 am ]
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I agree with Tony.... there is a better way to maximize that figure.

real nice though...
Author:  James Ringelspaugh [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:15 am ]
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^ Aesthetics. I prefer almost everything just a little off-center.
Author:  Dave Rector [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:00 am ]
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To each his own Lex. But, I agree with Bob and Tony. I think it would look really sweet with all the sapwood in the center.
Author:  Steve Saville [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:22 am ]
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Lex is kind of an off center person. I can see why he likes it. I like it too.
Author:  Dale R. Kirby [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:32 pm ]
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I like the off-center too but would turn it over to get more of the white stripe on the lower bout of the right side.  Looks like it is wide enough.

Kirby
Author:  L. Presnall [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:56 pm ]
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Hey, here's an off, off-center idea....wenge top, spruce back!!
And I still have wenge splinters in my hands from the OM on my site...I built it a year ago!
Author:  peterm [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:51 pm ]
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I had a set of Wenge and got a ton of splinters just from stickering it.... after that I cut it up and it ended up n neck laminates!

There, done with....

Author:  Larry Davis [ Wed Feb 28, 2007 2:23 am ]
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That's an entirely common color with wenge. Put the wood in the sunlight and it will darken to "normal" color expectations.

I once bought a log portion from a veneer mill as unknown species and when I cut into it though it was bocote. Turned out to wenge fully yellowed inside. It darkened just fine.
Author:  nathan c [ Wed Feb 28, 2007 2:42 am ]
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Hey Lex,
Although most people seem to love them, I'm not a fan of the sapwood stripe down the back of guitars. I do, however, like your off center wenge. In art, composition is extremely important, and from what I've been told you almost never center the subject in the frame. I like the composition you have created with the off center sapwood. That is more pleasing to my eye. Like Dave said, "to each his own".
Author:  rlabbe [ Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:25 am ]
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[QUOTE=lex_luthier] During his class, Somogyi mentioned a few woods he though compared favorably with brazillian rosewood (tonally at least). Wenge was one of them. [/QUOTE] Not to derail, but what other woods did he mention?
Author:  James Ringelspaugh [ Wed Feb 28, 2007 5:47 am ]
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^ Padauk, some cocobolo sets, and I think he also mentioned some Central American dalbergias which he thought sounded great but were pretty boring aesthetically.

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