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| Lutz Spurce Sound Quality? http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=11189 |
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| Author: | microsmurf [ Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:08 pm ] |
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I am thinking about ordering some Lutz from Shane, but I wanted to know a bit more about them. I know they are hybird between Siktka, Englemann and White Spruce, but how does that affect the tonal qualtiy of this parituclar wood? Does it sound more like Sitka, or more Englemann or somwhere in between? Is that mean it is punchier than Englemann but mellower than Sikta? |
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| Author: | Martin Turner [ Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:40 pm ] |
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Ive just got in 10 of Shanes tops via Tim Spittle at Aussie Tonewoods. Haven't used any yet but the tap tone on the raw tops is amazing....has got a really nice vibrant ring to it. The raw sitka tops in my shop are not nearly as vibrant sounding. |
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| Author: | Kim [ Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:54 pm ] |
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That is just how I find the Lutzii when comparing to other spruce as well Martin, rings like a bell with loads of sustain, stiff clean and silky. Cheers Kim |
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| Author: | bob_connor [ Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:00 am ] |
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Wot's this then. The Aussie mafia critiques Lutz. 
I find that it has a super ring to it and more sustain than some Adi I've got in the shed. (the Adi taps better than any of the Sitka and Englemann we've got} I took the Lutz and some Adi down to 4mm and had a tap of both. Surprisingly the Lutz was 10 grams heavier than the Red Spruce. I always thought it was supposed to be lighter. I'll be bracing and voicing a Lutz top next week so I I'll know more then (I hope) 
Cheers Bob |
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| Author: | Alain Desforges [ Wed Mar 07, 2007 5:17 am ] |
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Serge's no.2 was Lutz and sounded really good. Superb tone and the silking is drop dead gorgeous... Also notable is that Canadian builder, Michael Greenfield thinks the world of Lutz. Here's a quote from his website: www.greenfieldguitars.com 'I have been collecting, drying, aging and using the finest European and Adirondack red spruce for many years. I have recently come across a new supplier for “Lutz” spruce. While I still offer the other varieties, my philosophy has always been to use the very best materials available to craft my instruments. While the spruce I have been buying until now is quite remarkable, this new supply is simply the finest spruce I have ever seen. I will still offer Adirondack and European spruce for those who insist but I plan on building with Lutz spruce until such time as I find a finer tone wood. I doubt I ever will….' And guess who supplies Mr. Greenfield? |
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| Author: | Graham Steward [ Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:49 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Alain Desforges] And guess who supplies Mr. Greenfield? [/QUOTE] The Easter Bunny? 
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| Author: | crowduck [ Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:32 am ] |
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There was a report by someone here that the legendary spanish luthier Jose Romanillos chose a Lutz top for one of his students in a somewhat blind selection process. The student had taken the Lutz and something else to the class, and Jose chose the Lutz, although he was not told what variety it was. I think Shane later sent Jose some Lutz to use. An endorsment by J. Romanillos would be a big feather at least in classical circles. CrowDuck |
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| Author: | Mike Collins [ Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:00 am ] |
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I like Lutz alot ! I evaluate every top for weight,deflection along and across the grain . Then use my experience(and record keeping) for selecting it for a special guitar . Lutz is so stiff it can be thinned more to acheive great results especially if you arch your tops. I use the heavier tops for steels and the lighter ones for classicals. It's up to the maker to use the wood correctly. I still use Sitka and Engelmann but select them for a guitar size and sound I know they will produce . Mike Collins www.collinsguitars.com |
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| Author: | Shawn [ Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:32 am ] |
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I was the one that brought Lutz Spruce to the Romanillos class. You are supposed to bring 2 tops, unplaned or sanded to the class and Jose comes around and inspects which tops are good and which which people paid too much for  .
Jose's contention is that too little thought goes into how people evaluate tops, given that it is the single biggest contributor to the sound of the guitar. He wants the tops in raw condition as it is easier to see changes in grain density, direction, runnot and other factors when it is still "fuzzy" as all tops can look good once planed or sanded. What he does to evaluate each top is first scratch the rough surface...does it sound dead or alive. Tapping can be useful but it is too variable for people to tell the difference between a good top and a great top. He then flexs the top along the top edge with his fingers about 30mm apart. He is looking and feeling for consistency in grain and for an even density. Because he builds traditional Spanish guitars he does not look for very fine grain, caring more about even grain. Too often very fine grain can hide compression wood. Also important in his opinion is that the wood be even and consistent as it helps when you then go to voice it. It is Jose's contention that it would be better to build with a 3 or 4 piece top of the best wood possible than to buy a great looking bookmatched set but that is uneven, has runnot or is tonally dead. The basis for this is Antonio De Torres built a number of guitar in which he pieced the tops together from what he had, even gluing the plates off center, all in an attempt to use nothing but the best that he had at the time. Having said that, back to the story of the Lutz Spruce that I brought to the Romanillos class... I had won in the silent auction at ASIA Symposium 2005 3 Lutz Spruce tops that Shane had donated to ASIA. No one else had bid on it as he had not sent the tops, just the offer of 3 "Lutz" spruce tops. I knew what Lutz Spruce was, having bought Lutz Spruce in various marketing names from another supplier in the same area as Shane. It was through winning those tops and telling people about it on OLF that Shane came to OLF and became all of our friend. So I really liked Lutz Spruce so when it came to bringing two tops to the Romanillos class, I brought 2 tops, a very good old German Spruce top that I had had for about 30 years, and one of the tops I got from Shane. Jose came around and looked at each top, looked for half a second at the German top and then picked up the Lutz Spruce. He said, "This was sold to you as German?" to which I said, no...I dont think that you have seen this old growth spruce before. He said, well it is definitely not Englemann and it reminds me of Sitka but it smells different and I dont think it is Sitka. At that point he said, "whatever it is called, that is a very good top, maybe one or two of the best in the class" (of 20 builders times 2 tops each), "build with that one"! That was as far as he would go towards an endorsement but it was at least an affirmation that the Lutz Spruce is as good as any other Spruce including alot of Euro Spruce. When you have your top braced and are ready to voice it, Jose then comes around to flex each top and tell you how thin to take the top and where it needs to be thinned. Basically Jose takes the perimeter of the lower bout thinner tapering it from the bridge area as the thickest part of the lower bout. This thinned area extends in from the edges about 25-30mm. The thickness and or thinness of the top is determined by the quality of the wood with wood that has a longer more even grain being able to be taken thinner. For the Lutz top I had and one other that was a really nice Swiss/Italian Alps top, ours were the thinnest in the class, all because the wood could support it. One point I would like to make about Lutz spruce, about Michael Greenfield's endorsement of it and my opinion of Lutz Spruce. What appeals to me about Lutz Spruce is the consistency of its long grain. It is the fact that this wood is at the altitude and terrain that it is that produces the straightness of the grain. While Englemann is a great wood for classicals (if good euro spruce is not available), it is notorious for twisting to follow the sun so that runout is always a factor and often present in Englemann. Euro Spruce is great stuff but as stands have been depleted too often I have had to settle for some runout or narrow widths. Michael Greenfields preference for Lutz Spruce is also for the eveness of grain, not too tight and not too wide. If Jose Romanillos and Michael Greenfield use that criteria, then they must be right because I do the same ... Actually I think that consistent density and eveness of grain is important for classicals to have an even tonal color across ranges. Shane is great to work with as you tell him what you are looking for as far as grain, color and grade and that is what you get.
As far as the part about Shane sending Lutz to Jose, here is the story behind that. I was so impressed by the time I spent with Jose and Liam (Jose's son) Romanillos that as a measure of my appreciation and because Jose had expressed interest in the Lutz Spruce, I called Shane to order some Lutz tops to the standard that I knew that Jose would appreciate. I explained that I wanted to order 10 master tops of which then I would send Jose 2 tops, Liam 2 tops and I would build with the rest. Shane is a very gracious guy and said that he was willing to donate the tops to the Romanillos' but I insisted that if he did that then it would not be my gift but his. The deal that we struck was to split the cost between us, that I would then send the tops to Jose and Liam and hopefully we would then hear if they liked them and used them. In that way the gift would be from both Shane and me. They have not used the tops yet but that is to be expected as Liam has a 10 year + backlog of existing orders and Jose is retired from building. Although Jose no longer builds full time, he still manages to build a few special guitars a year so it may be that he will be that he will build with the Lutz Spruce. I will be attending the Romanillos class again this year and will be building with Lutz Spruce again. I am also working with Jose and Liam to start a non-profit foundation to raise money to establish a museum to the Spanish guitar. The guitar started in Spain and yet there is not a museum to the guitar. There is interest among builders, performing guitarists and collectors to support such a museum but this is a very expensive endeavour but one that would preserve existing historic instruments, promote the study of the construction techniques of the master buildings like Torres, Garcia, Ramirez, Santos, and others. |
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